A6/S6/RS6 2009 Audi RS6 Sedan

[Merc1]

That's an interesting statement you make Marcus. It's amazing how marketing spin can create and impression of the "latest version of quattro" when actually quattro is less of a mechanical innovation these days and more of a "philosophy" if you will - irrespective of the technical layout. So, technically speaking there isn't a latest version of quattro from an innovation point of view.

The latest version of quattro is simply the one employed in the most recent model release I suppose. It's possibly better to understand what is the most advanced or sophisticated version of quattro and again, even that is a difficult one to pin down. In my opinion it would be the lastest asymmetrical version employed on front-engined A4 and A5s coupled with a QTV rear differential.

In principle as I've laboriously stated on a number of occasions, there's no such thing as the perfect AWD system - each and every one of them has some or other mechanical or dynamic penalty. Some, though are as close as possible to the best practical compromise.

Yes it does kinda take the "latest and greatest" description down a peg or two. It must be kinda expensive for them to have all these different variations too. I guess they have to tailor "quattro" to suit the vehicle in question.


M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

QVT? Nope - you must be referring to QTV or Quattro Torque Vectoring, which the R8 doesn't have. In fact its AWD system is quite and obviously different as a result of the mid-engined application. The R8 makes use of a viscous clutch centre differential that can apportion only up to 35% of the torque to the front axle but the current bias if I recall correctly is 10/90 in favour of the rear axle. It also has an electronic rear differential lock or limited slip differential to limit the amount of slip at a given wheel. The reason that an R8 earns such accolades in the handling department has much more to do with its mid-engined supercar layout and not the level of technology thrown at the AWD system.

This is not torque vectoring. Torque vectoring involves the method of directing more torque to a rear-wheel with the best grip in the onset of understeer so traditionally associated with AWD vehicles. This is done via a electro-mechanical clutch and gear pack located in the rear axle differential.

Torque Vectoring is a holistic application - not just focussed on the mechanicals at a given axle. It relies on steering angle sensors, yaw and grip level measurement to determine the dynamic attitude of a vehicle vs. the driver's intended direction. When it senses understeer through all of these systems, QTV then applies more torque to the desired rear wheel in order to turn the nose of the car into the corner.

Unless I'm mistaking, I belive some japanese cars (Evo, GT-R) are even more advanced then that (there's about 5 or 6 sensors in the GT-R); the ESC is incorporated in the AWD patern/system of the GT-R thus braking the inner corner rear wheel (sort of like the McLarens of 97/98).

About the latest GT-R:

Details on the GT-R's AWD system aren't as clear. Though it may be called an updated version of the famed ATTESSA-ETS system found in previous GT-Rs, sources indicate the similarity would be in name only. Unlike the old system, which was based primarily on mechanical feedback, the new one uses electronic sensors and hydraulically actuated clutches, similar to those of the Haldex 4 system used by Saab and VW/Audi. What we do know is that yaw-rate feedback control, the ability to safely manage slip angle, has been built into the GT-R's AWD system and that front to rear torque split is as much as 2:98 at launch, to a maximum of 50:50.
...
The 2009 Nissan GT-R uses an updated version of the ATTESA-E-TS, and is designed to work with the car's rear transaxle layout. The system is unique in a way that it utilizes two driveshafts under the vehicle's centerline, with a second driveshaft running slightly to the right of the main driveshaft and engine sending power to the front wheels. It is so far, the only rear transaxle-based AWD system for a front engined car in production.

 

[Sunny]

Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. The absense of QTV must be the reason you can play around with the R8 and tail it in corners unlike the RS4 and RS6 which ride like trains on rails. Hopefully Audi will offer an "optional performance kit" or something with a a different center diff, LSD and no QVT for people who would like their RS5 or RS4 more adventurous.

AFAIK, RS4 and RS6 doesn't have QTV either. Upcoming S4 will be the first Audi to feature it. Also I don't think QTV rules out "tail out" attitude. In fact one of its strengths is to reduce under steer. R8's ability to hang it's tail out has more to do with not having a hefty engine hang up front like the rest of the Audi's.

 

[Merc1]

I just keep thinking about what these cars with all these advanced driveline pieces are going to be like 5-8 years down the road when it comes to servicing.

M

 

[Zafiro]

Apparently the Sedan is about 250kg less in weight than the Avant. Should improve the performance in a good way.

EDIT: I was wrong, 1972 kg

 

[Centurion]

With 997 owners able to change to a more aggressive engine mapping(SportsChrono) and M3 owners access to various gearbox and suspensions settings, I think that Audi should join the party by letting drivers changes the torque distribution in the cockpit. A 50/50, 40/60 and a 20/80 setting would be cool.

 

[Sunny]

Unless I'm mistaking, I belive some japanese cars (Evo, GT-R) are even more advanced then that (there's about 5 or 6 sensors in the GT-R); the ESC is incorporated in the AWD patern/system of the GT-R thus braking the inner corner rear wheel (sort of like the McLarens of 97/98).

About the latest GT-R:

I think X6 also has it - thrust vectoring, but under some other TLA.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Yep, but unlike the Evo it can't shit torque left to right on the front wheels.

 

[martinbo]

Yep, but unlike the Evo it can't shit torque left to right on the front wheels.

I love it when a car "shits" torque! Wheels-a-spinnin' shit-a-flyin' !!! Yeeehaaa!

Back to topic at hand, BMW DPC as IE astutely put it, doesn't shift torque left to right on the front wheels. Unlike Honda's SH(it)-AWD.

 

[Audi69]

AFAIK, RS4 and RS6 doesn't have QTV either. Upcoming S4 will be the first Audi to feature it. Also I don't think QTV rules out "tail out" attitude. In fact one of its strengths is to reduce under steer. R8's ability to hang it's tail out has more to do with not having a hefty engine hang up front like the rest of the Audi's.

That is right. S4 will be first to employ QTV and will only be utilised for new Audis with new architecture e.g. S4. RS5 will probably be next to use QTV. S5 does not have it becasue QTV was still under development.

It will be interesting to see if R10 will have QTV

 

[martinbo]

It will be interesting to see if R10 will have QTV

R10? Is that what they're calling the R8 V10?

I've just gone to some length to explain the necessity behind QTV. Do you feel that QTV would be a logical inclusion in an R8? In a mid-engined car with 90% of its torque delivery to the rear wheels? Seems like total overkill to me.

Quattro Torque Vectoring is predominantly designed for quattro-equipped cars with front-mounted engines in the longitudinal orientation. It is being implemented to negate, to an extent, the inherent tendency of the frontwardly located mass to pull the car offline (understeer) in a corner by "telling" the back of the car to get off its arse and do some work.

 

[speed_kills]

Apparently the Sedan is about 250kg less in weight than the Avant. Should improve the performance in a good way.

EDIT: I was wrong, 1972 kg

Where did you see that? is it in EU?

 

[Zafiro]

Where did you see that? is it in EU?

I was reading on another board and they discussed the weight RS6 Avant vs Sedan. I dont know how reliable it is but this is what they said.

 

[Cashmere]

Im glad they gave the RS6 those awesome Recaro's. Audi just didnt put any effort into the press release pics of this car. They picked the exact same colour and they unveiled it with 19's!?

While this car is far from boring, I agree with some people, it just didnt move me, but I believe Audi's marketing team is to be blamed.

 

[VroomVroom]

Has anyone noticed the seats being changed to more sporty seats? Thats a good sign for a better track car

 

[VroomVroom]

Im glad they gave the RS6 those awesome Recaro's. Audi just didnt put any effort into the press release pics of this car. They picked the exact same colour and they unveiled it with 19's!?

While this car is far from boring, I agree with some people, it just didnt move me, but I believe Audi's marketing team is to be blamed.

Was just about to point out the Recaro's I'm glad they were put in the Rs 6 makes it look much more sportier

 

[Tumbo]

While this car is far from boring, I agree with some people, it just didnt move me, but I believe Audi's marketing team is to be blamed.

Are you sure it doesn't move you ?

 

[Centurion]

Gorgeous. Will look like a proper executive racer in black. That blue colour is a little too vivid for a car of that size.

 

[Deutsch]

This car is going to be wicked fast!

At six figues I doubt it will ever see sales here.

 

[klier]

Are you sure it doesn't move you ?

Only the die-hard Audi fans I'm afraid.....The new E-class AMG model will be much, much, much more spectacular......and it will not be long before we see that car. Half a year maybe.