Where is JD Powers on this one...

[NevadaJack]

The latest in large recalls of Japanese made vehicles and JD Powers continues to rate them in the high levels of their reports. This from Honda:

TOKYO — Japan's Honda Motor Co. said on Wednesday it would recall and repair a combined 561,594 units of the Odyssey, CR-V and Step Wgn models globally to fix a faulty ignition switch that could cause the engine to stop.

The recall and repairs would cost the company around 2.73 billion yen ($23.70 million), a spokeswoman said.

Of the total, 483,185 units are in Japan and were built between October 1994 and May 1997, Honda said in a filing with Japan's transport ministry.

Most of the recalls outside Japan cover the Odyssey minivan sold in North America. No accidents were reported overseas, while five people in Japan suffered burns from contact with melted ignition switches.

How about the recent Toyota (Lexus) recalls...how come JD Powers misses all these "faults" in their surveys...how long will it take for this data to impact their rankings? How long will it take the new S Class and other MB quality improvements to impact their ratings? What a bogus operation as pointed out in an earlier post on the way they operate.

Just a rant... they send me a buck to compensate me for my time because I am so busy...what a crock!!!!

 

[wltsm]

Just a rant... they send me a buck to compensate me for my time because I am so busy...what a crock!!!!

It would probably cost me more than a buck to send a buck to you!

Anyway, interesting ideas, I agree it looks like Japanese quality is starting to look thin, and I think German cars are up to Japanese quality now, but the fact that companies such as Toyota sell so many cars, recalls looks bigger than they would be Mercedes or BMW, just because so many more cars are sold!

 

[Yperion]

I was reading a reputable Greek newspaper last weekend and they had an article saying how Toyota's reputation has fallen after the recent recalls and how many people were caught in accidents caused from a failure in the steering wheel (that caused the recall of more than one million cars).

Seems that the word has been spreading. Toyota's reliability is more a marketing ploy and less a reality.

 

[Giannis]

in how much time do you think will this have an effect on JD Power's lists? I think a couple of months is ok. But yes, the world is spread

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Seems that the word has been spreading. Toyota's reliability is more a marketing ploy and less a reality.

Just because they appear to be having problems now does not mean their reliability has always been a gimmick. That means we could have drawn the same conclusion about every single German car maker.

Toyota should be proud of the level of reliability they achieved in the past. This will allow their brand to sustain some negative press, as MB's brand name allowed it to for more than 1/2 a decade. But no doubt Toyota will have things sorted out quick smart.

 

[warot]

Look bottom line is, Toyotas will last years after our beloved Benz's and BMW's are in the scrap yard. How and why i don't know, but once the Germans master that, we'll talk again.

 

[Merc1]

Look bottom line is, Toyotas will last years after our beloved Benz's and BMW's are in the scrap yard. How and why i don't know, but once the Germans master that, we'll talk again.

Untrue. Reliability surveys and all the older Benzes you see on the road are different things.

Toyotas have less little niggling problems, doesn't mean they are physically built better, these surveys don't say that either. If that is the case the same thing applies to Hyundais and well all know they aren't "built" as good as a Benz.

M

 

[Merc1]

The latest in large recalls of Japanese made vehicles and JD Powers continues to rate them in the high levels of their reports. This from Honda:

TOKYO — Japan's Honda Motor Co. said on Wednesday it would recall and repair a combined 561,594 units of the Odyssey, CR-V and Step Wgn models globally to fix a faulty ignition switch that could cause the engine to stop.

The recall and repairs would cost the company around 2.73 billion yen ($23.70 million), a spokeswoman said.

Of the total, 483,185 units are in Japan and were built between October 1994 and May 1997, Honda said in a filing with Japan's transport ministry.

Most of the recalls outside Japan cover the Odyssey minivan sold in North America. No accidents were reported overseas, while five people in Japan suffered burns from contact with melted ignition switches.

How about the recent Toyota (Lexus) recalls...how come JD Powers misses all these "faults" in their surveys...how long will it take for this data to impact their rankings? How long will it take the new S Class and other MB quality improvements to impact their ratings? What a bogus operation as pointed out in an earlier post on the way they operate.

Just a rant... they send me a buck to compensate me for my time because I am so busy...what a crock!!!!

It really is quite simple. Once your name becomes Mudd it hard to change it, plus Mercedes has burned a lot of folks with the first ML, 2001 C-Class, 2003 E-Class and 2000-2002 S-Classes. There are lot of them still on the roads and until Mercedes give each model the same care and dedication to quality as they did the new S then this problem isn't going away and even once MB does do this the perception will take a few more years yet to fix. Watch and see how the media will tear Toyota apart if this keeps up. Its a natural thing, people love to see a great company taken down. Toyota's reputation for supernatural reliability is what will work against them if they don't live up to it with every car they sell, same thing happened to Mercedes. MB's rep got too big and some just really were tired of hearing about MB's superiority so once MB did produce a dud like the first ML it was break out the bubbly time for MB's detrators. Same thing will happen with Toyota if they don't get ahead of this, watch and see. GM/Ford/Chrysler will be more than willing to exploit anything the media gives them in the negative about Toyota, the company that is single handidly putting GM out of business, literally.

If MB really did make strides with the quality of the 2005 and onward cars then the earliest we'll see any difference is 2008 with JDP because theirs is a 3-year thing. Now with Consumer Reports I haven't a clue because they're still saying the same thing about every Benz, new or old. I'll be really interested to see what they say about the GL, R and especially S-Class the only new Benzes they haven't yet given their reliability predictions/data for yet. Especially the new S, which I haven't seen a single problem about anywhere so if CR comes up with it being unreliable that will get them even closer to the BS'er of the year in my book.

M

 

[SDNR]

Look bottom line is, Toyotas will last years after our beloved Benz's and BMW's are in the scrap yard. How and why i don't know, but once the Germans master that, we'll talk again.

I don't know about that warot ...but apart from the obvious cachet of owning a German car (as opposed to a Japanese one) just ask yourself: if you were going to have a head-on collision, what would you rather be in, A Toyota Camry, or a BMW 5er? .........no need to answer.

 

[Snake Vargas]

Apart from the fact that a cheapish 5er costs 3-4 times as much a Camry here.

Plus, is there any evidence that a 5er necessarily does better than a Camry in a head-on collision? Especially the new Camry? Much of the difference in price surely goes towards things like avoiding collisions and comforts. There's only so much that you can do once the cars actually collide. Sure, I'd expect it to, if NCAP tests and such are worth anything at all; and price notwithstanding, I would much rather be in a 5er in the event of a collision. But I prefer evidence over rehashing some half-baked 'intuitive' answers.

Never mind. OT anyway!

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

Roberto funny you chose the 5-er to compare, as opposed to the class safety leader the E-class.

The 5-ers performance in NCAP was certainly rather unspectacular.

That said I still would rather be in a new German car as opposed to a Camry in an accident. It wouldn't at all surprise me if the Camy was engineered specifically for these crash tests whereas the Germans, particularly MB, have adopted a more wholistic approach to automotive safety.

 

[Merc1]

Got this from MBWorld.org:

Auto news
More rankings

June 8, 2006

Email this Print this Related articles:

• J.D. POWER SURVEY: Hyundai leapfrogs Toyota in quality
Overall quality
The number of quality problems reported by buyers of new cars and trucks continues to fall. PP100 % change
1998 176
1999 167 9.00 5.11%
2000 154 13.00 7.78%
2001 147 7.00 4.55%
2002 133 14.00 9.52%
2003 133 0.00 0.00%
2004 119 14.00 10.53%
2005 118 1.00 0.84%
2006 109 9.44 8.00%


Pickup quality
Pickups remain one of the last strongholds for Detroit automakers. General Motors Corp. trucks ruled the roost on quality, followed closely by Toyota.


Pickup truck PP100
Chevrolet Silverado LD 98
Chevrolet Silverado HD/GMC Sierra HD (tie) 101
Toyota Tundra 103
GMC Sierra LD 104
Ford F-150 107
Dodge Ram LD 117
Pickup average 118
Ford F250/350 127
Chevrolet Avalanche 132
Nissan Titan 145
Dodge Ram HD 147

Design defects
The annual report by J.D. Power and Associates separated manufacturing and quality defects for the first time. This is how many design defects, such as difficult-to-use navigation systems or door locks, were reported per 100 vehicles. DESIGN SORT Design PP100
1 Porsche 35
2 Hyundai 41
3 GMC 43
4 Jaguar 44
5 Lexus 45
6 Nissan 45
7 Honda 46
8 Toyota 47
9 Chevrolet 49
10 Lincoln 50
11 Ford 50
12 Acura 51
13 Dodge 51
14 Mitsubishi 51
15 Infiniti 52
16 Industry Average 52
17 Saturn 54
18 Pontiac 55
19 Mercury 56
20 Jeep 56
21 Cadillac 57
22 Kia 58
23 Chrysler 59
24 Volvo 61
25 Audi 62
26 Scion 62
27 Saab 63
28 Mazda 64
29 Suzuki 66
30 Buick 68
31 Mercedes 68
32 Subaru 69
33 Isuzu 70
34 VW 73
35 Mini 77
36 Hummer 80
37 BMW 82
38 Land Rover 89


Manufacturing defects
The annual report by J.D. Power and Associates separated manufacturing and quality defects for the first time. This is how many manufacturing defects, such as engine or paint problems, were reported per 100 vehicles. Brands Defects PP100
1 Lexus 42
2 Porsche 49
3 Toyota 52
4 BMW 52
5 Hyundai 53
6 Chrysler 53
7 Cadillac 54
8 Buick 55
9 Honda 57
10 Infiniti 57
11 Jaguar 59
12 Audi 60
13 Acura 63
14 Lincoln 63
15 Industry Average 64
16 Volvo 64
17 Mercury 65
18 Mercedes 65
19 Mini 65
20 Subaru 67
21 Chevrolet 69
22 Ford 69
23 GMC 70
24 Nissan 70
25 Saturn 70
26 Pontiac 70
27 Scion 71
28 Dodge 72
29 Kia 72
30 Mitsubishi 78
31 Mazda 79
32 Hummer 79
33 Jeep 87
34 VW 87
35 Saab 91
36 Suzuki 93
37 Land Rover 106
38 Isuzu 110


2006 Nameplate rankings
Consumers reported the following number of quality problems -- including manufacturing defects and design flaws -- per 100 vehicles in J.D. Power and Associates' annual quality survey: Brands PP100
1 Porsche 91
2 Lexus 93
3 Hyundai 102
4 Toyota 106
5 Jaguar 109
6 Honda 110
7 Cadillac 117
8 Infiniti 117
9 GMC 119
10 Acura 120
11 Chrysler 120
12 Lincoln 121
13 Nissan 121
14 Chevrolet 124
15 Industry Average 124
16 Ford 127
17 Mercury 129
18 Saturn 129
19 Audi 130
20 Dodge 132
21 Pontiac 133
22 Volvo 133
23 Buick 134
24 Mitsubishi 135
25 Kia 136
26 Mercedes 139
27 Scion 140
28 BMW 142
29 Subaru 146
30 Mazda 150
31 Mini 150
32 Jeep 153
33 Saab 163
34 Suzuki 169
35 Hummer 171
36 VW 171
37 Isuzu 191
38 Land Rover 204

Look at the differences between "design defects" and "Manufacturing defects" for MB and BMW, especially BMW. Quite interesting.

M