Venezuela - President Maduro Captured

[WBarnes]

Venezuela latest: President Nicolas Maduro 'captured' after US strikes - and indicted for 'narco-terrorism'

Venezuela latest: President Nicolas Maduro 'captured' after US strikes - and indicted for 'narco-terrorism'

After explosions were heard overnight in the Venezuelan capital, Donald Trump announced the US carried out a "large-scale strike" - and captured President Nicolas Maduro and his wife. In an extraordinary claim, Trump says the pair have been flown out of the country. Follow the latest.

news.sky.com

 

[Matski]

While I can understand the initial desire for many Venezuelans to celebrate the removal of Maduro, pretty much every aspect of everything outside of that, is pretty terrible... not least because the US president has just announced the US will run Venezuela, and he is ready to launch much larger attacks against the country if necessary (i.e. they don't comply). Best case domestic scenario is that the country gets a government with genuine popular majority support - even if it's likely simply a puppet government - and the potential wealth is unlocked for all the Venezuelan people... I'm sceptical it will work out that way.

 

[SCOTT27]

Team America is showing on TV now.

 

[WBarnes]

While I can understand the initial desire for many Venezuelans to celebrate the removal of Maduro, pretty much every aspect of everything outside of that, is pretty terrible... not least because the US president has just announced the US will run Venezuela, and he is ready to launch much larger attacks against the country if necessary (i.e. they don't comply). Best case domestic scenario is that the country gets a government with genuine popular majority support - even if it's likely simply a puppet government - and the potential wealth is unlocked for all the Venezuelan people... I'm sceptical it will work out that way.

Hopefully it will be an improvement anyway.

 

[Matski]

Hopefully it will be an improvement anyway.

Yeah, hopefully.



Trump's already said the opposition leader doesn't have the respect of the people and they're leaving Maduro's VP in charge for now, it was already evident Trump just wants to pirate the country's resources, and now it's seems clear they really don't give a shit what happens with the rest of the country. Piecing together the rumours, sacrificing Maduro was done with the assistance of some part of the current regime in Venezuela - so likely the deals were already done and America's got what it wants already... I'm cynical those that would sell out Maduro from inside his own regime have any other intention than maintaining the status quo (i.e. their own wealth and power) in Venezuela.

 

[WBarnes]

Yeah, hopefully.



Trump's already said the opposition leader doesn't have the respect of the people and they're leaving Maduro's VP in charge for now, it was already evident Trump just wants to pirate the country's resources, and now it's seems clear they really don't give a shit what happens with the rest of the country. Piecing together the rumours, sacrificing Maduro was done with the assistance of some part of the current regime in Venezuela - so likely the deals were already done and America's got what it wants already... I'm cynical those that would sell out Maduro from inside his own regime have any other intention than maintaining the status quo (i.e. their own wealth and power) in Venezuela.

I'm not entirely convinced Trump got anything, the new VP has met with representatives from Russia and China already.

 

[klier]

Trump's already said the opposition leader doesn't have the respect of the people and they're leaving Maduro's VP in charge for now, it was already evident Trump just wants to pirate the country's resources

As opposed to China, Russia, Iran and Cuba who are only there for the recipe of Venezuelan Arepas

 

[Matski]

As opposed to China, Russia, Iran and Cuba who are only there for the recipe of Venezuelan Arepas

Do you seriously think those country's dealings with Venezuela are the same as what the USA has just done?

 

[klier]

Do you seriously think those country's dealings with Venezuela are the same as what the USA has just done?

I seriously think I will refrain from commenting any further

 

[WBarnes]

Do you seriously think those country's dealings with Venezuela are the same as what the USA has just done?

They're propping up a dictatorship and China is exchanging debt for oil, while Russia is just interested in controlling the supply of resources and keeping them away from the West (same as in Ukraine), so it's at least as bad.

Certainly propping up someone like this is at least as bad as forcefully removing them:

Venezuela: Harsh repression and crimes against humanity ongoing Fact-Finding Mission says
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...-crimes-against-humanity-ongoing-fact-finding

United Nations (UN) investigators say Venezuela's government has "committed egregious violations" amounting to crimes against humanity.

Cases of killings, torture, violence and disappearances were investigated in a fact-finding mission for the UN Human Rights Council.

The UN team said President Nicolás Maduro and other top officials were implicated.

Venezuela’s Bolivarian National Guard (GNB) has been implicated in a decade-long pattern of killings, arbitrary detentions, torture and sexual violence targeting protesters and opponents of President Nicolás Maduro, according to a new report from UN-appointed investigators on Thursday.

Technical Difficulties

Maduro helped manage and ultimately lead the Cartel of the Suns, a Venezuelan drug-trafficking organization comprised of high-ranking Venezuelan officials. As he gained power in Venezuela, Maduro participated in a corrupt and violent narco-terrorism conspiracy with the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), a designated Foreign Terrorist Organization. Maduro negotiated multi-ton shipments of FARC-produced cocaine; directed the Cartel of the Suns to provide military-grade weapons to the FARC; coordinated with narcotics traffickers in Honduras and other countries to facilitate large-scale drug trafficking; and solicited assistance from FARC leadership in training an unsanctioned militia group that functioned, in essence, as an armed forces unit for the Cartel of the Suns.

In March 2020, Maduro was charged in the Southern District of New York for narco-terrorism, conspiracy to import cocaine, possession of machine guns and destructive devices, and conspiracy to possess machine guns and destructive devices.

https://www.justice.gov/archives/op...-venezuelan-officials-charged-narco-terrorism

“Today we announce criminal charges against Nicolás Maduro Moros for running, together with his top lieutenants, a narco-terrorism partnership with the FARC for the past 20 years,” said U.S. Attorney Geoffrey S. Berman. “The scope and magnitude of the drug trafficking alleged was made possible only because Maduro and others corrupted the institutions of Venezuela and provided political and military protection for the rampant narco-terrorism crimes described in our charges. As alleged, Maduro and the other defendants expressly intended to flood the United States with cocaine in order to undermine the health and wellbeing of our nation. Maduro very deliberately deployed cocaine as a weapon. While Maduro and other cartel members held lofty titles in Venezuela’s political and military leadership, the conduct described in the Indictment wasn’t statecraft or service to the Venezuelan people. As alleged, the defendants betrayed the Venezuelan people and corrupted Venezuelan institutions to line their pockets with drug money.”

It's one of those cases where you have to ask if international law is really upheld better by leaving them in charge or invading and removing them. Certainly under national law within a given law system they would be arrested but there's no such thing as international police, so we're left with this debate instead.