UPDATED: The New Mercedes-Benz S63 and S65 AMG

[HighestOfHigh]

That S63 is perfect and the power is awesome!

IMO...those squared-off tailpipes (BMW F02 760Li)...Benz/AMG should have kept with the original AMG oval pipes....

Agreed. It looks as though the S63 will use the squared ones, while the S65 will use the oval.

 

[Karabiner98k]

The interesting fact is that S65 AMG is indeed no longer the torque monster because now S63 with AMG performance package delivers more torque to the wheels than a S65 with 5-speed:

S65:
First gear ratio: 3.6
Final drive ratio: 2.65

3.6 X 2.65 X 1000 = 9540nm at the wheels

S63 with performance package:
First gear ratio: 4.38
Final drive ratio: 2.65

4.38 X 2.65 X 900 = 10446nm at the wheels!!!

What a monster!

For comparison:

760i F01:
4.71 X 2.81 X 750 = 9926nm at the wheels

 

[absent]

The interesting fact is that S65 AMG is indeed no longer the torque monster because now S63 with AMG performance package delivers more torque to the wheels than a S65 with 5-speed:

S65:
First gear ratio: 3.6
Final drive ratio: 2.65

3.6 X 2.65 X 1000 = 9540nm at the wheels

S63 with performance package:
First gear ratio: 4.38
Final drive ratio: 2.65

4.38 X 2.65 X 900 = 10446nm at the wheels!!!

What a monster!

For comparison:

760i F01:
4.71 X 2.81 X 750 = 9926nm at the wheels

According to the above a 760i should outaccelerate the S65 but in reality it does not.

 

[Karabiner98k]

According to the above a 760i should outaccelerate the S65 but in reality it does not.

Yes, BMW has 3 more gears but gearing usually can't compensate for 86 hp difference (630-544=86).

But S63 AMG without peformance package has 544 hp and 800 nm of torque and a 7-speed gearbox.

For a normal S63:

4.38 X 2.65 X 800 = 9285 nm at the wheels

This car has the same power as 760i and 50 nm more torque but BMW has one more gear and the overall gearing of 760i is shorter.
A comparison between these two would be interesting.
760i also weighs about 100kg more.

 

[Sunny]

As fantastic as those numbers are, I think it is all a bit theoretical. I doubt any of those cars can put down all that torque down effectively with out either smoking the tires or the electronics kicking in.

 

[Karabiner98k]

I doubt any of those cars can put down all that torque down effectively with out either smoking the tires or the electronics kicking in.

But Veyron can

 

[SKY]

What it´s amazing is that the new 5.5 V8 TT has the same acceleration than the V12, almost the same torque, and much better fuel consumption.

 

[Karabiner98k]

What it´s amazing is that the new 5.5 V8 TT has the same acceleration than the V12, almost the same torque, and much better fuel consumption.

That's because 5.5 V8 TT has much better gearing than the V12.

 

[K-A]

10 years ago, they would have done so. Lately though, all German makers create wrong, weird names. BMW too sadly. 550i? Why? Just call the car 545i, that's what it is (and of course a lot of others too, the 335i is no 3.5 liter engine).

Agreed. Fact is, unfortunately, it's the marketing departments running things in these respects.

'Cause it's not as smooth as a conventional slushbox and thus does not qualify for the 600, but only for the AMGs.

Stunning car. And well, for us car-nuts S55 would be better, but Merc announced earlier that now, the badge would not reflect the actual cubic inches but more the performances.

Thus the S400 Hybrid which is not a 400, but feels like one thanks to the additional electric engine... And this is why the turboed engines will get higher designation badges than N/As because they feel quicker.

Badging is now reflecting the performance level and how the motor feels, not any more the mere "size" of the engine. Which actually makes sense, because with the current downsizing trend, MB would have to replace almost every model with one with a lower badge, which would be a marketing suicidal nonsense.

BMW, sharing the size-designation with MB, came to the very same conclusion.

I don't buy that BS from them.

So it "feels" like a 6.3? The name 63 is so ridiculous now, as it's simply there ONLY due to them not knowing how to change it, after the previous 6.2 (which isn't a 6.3, but hey, let's give 'em that).

Why don't they just call it an "S99" if they want to market the car as the most powerful Sedan (which it is).

I understand the marketing depts are in a bind, but IMO they should just find something better to do with this 5.5T than continue the 63 name, which is too new and unknown to the masses to even carry too much irreversible cache (especially since it was seen as a downgrade from the 55K motors anyway).

One place BMW has it nailed is in the badging of their "M's". By keeping them all "M3/M5", etc. they iconicized (is that a word? lol) the cars, and EVERYONE knows them. While M-B has been fumbling around with AMG names.

 

[GBOY]

I disagree. AMG is just as well known to the "masses". AMG is also not a one size fits all brand. There are different ///AMGs and they have to be distinguished as such IMO

 

[Sunny]

One place BMW has it nailed is in the badging of their "M's". By keeping them all "M3/M5", etc. they iconicized (is that a word? lol) the cars, and EVERYONE knows them. While M-B has been fumbling around with AMG names.

What I said before, keep using same brand name and you build brand value/recognition - M3 and 911 and prime examples.

Try telling a non car person, you own a C36, doesn't mean jack to 90% of the population vs telling them you own a M3.

 

[zegerman]

What I said before, keep using same brand name and you build brand value/recognition - M3 and 911 and prime examples.

Try telling a non car person, you own a C36, doesn't mean jack to 90% of the population vs telling them you own a M3.

Just a personal observation but to other than car enthusiast niche models such as M3 or even 911 don't mean jack.

People usually address their AMG vehicles with the AMG in it, ie. "C36 AMG" which I think might ring as many bells as 911.

 

[Sunny]

Just a personal observation but to other than car enthusiast niche models such as M3 or even 911 don't mean jack.

People usually address their AMG vehicles with the AMG in it, ie. "C36 AMG" which I think might ring as many bells as 911.

I disagree, I have hardly met anyone who haven't heard of M3/M5 or 911 and most people I know are not into cars.

Yes, you could say you drive a 'C36 AMG', beyond the fact that it is an AMG, most people will still have freaking no clue what the heck it is. Also it is just as dorky and ostentatious as saying 'BMW M3' or 'Porsche 911'.

And come on guys, Mercedes is not foreign to this either, why do they insist on calling SL550, SL500 in Europe? Cause there is so much name recognition attached to SL500.

 

[K-A]

I disagree. AMG is just as well known to the "masses". AMG is also not a one size fits all brand. There are different ///AMGs and they have to be distinguished as such IMO

I agree to an extent, however not completely. AMG has some recognition on its own, but its vehicle designations hold no cache, because M-B keeps dating them with new (now inapropriately titled) #'s. "M" on its own doesn't mean much, but you simply say "M3", or even "M5", and even non car buffs know it, and know it means something that kicks a$$, is special, and costs some money.

You can say "M3" without saying BMW, and it'll raise eyebrows. If you say "C55 AMG", you'll get a blank stare, and frankly, IMO the "C" part will fight it out with the "AMG" part as to which plays the key role.

What I said before, keep using same brand name and you build brand value/recognition - M3 and 911 and prime examples.

Try telling a non car person, you own a C36, doesn't mean jack to 90% of the population vs telling them you own a M3.

I disagree, I have hardly met anyone who haven't heard of M3/M5 or 911 and most people I know are not into cars.

Yes, you could say you drive a 'C36 AMG', beyond the fact that it is an AMG, most people will still have freaking no clue what the heck it is. Also it is just as dorky and ostentatious as saying 'BMW M3' or 'Porsche 911'.

And come on guys, Mercedes is not foreign to this either, why do they insist on calling SL550, SL500 in Europe? Cause there is so much name recognition attached to SL500.

Agreed. I think M-B using the "500" name in Europe proves that it does understand and value the "iconic" nature of a classic name designation that rings everyones bell, but in the U.S, and now AMG markets, the Marketing Departments, don't feel that will sell the most cars.

I realize M-B has a different way of naming their AMG's than BMW does their M's. But this is one area BMW happened to get it right. Proof is in that AMG i naming the "S63" just that, due to nothing more than not knowing what else to name it.

 

[zzz1]

its.... Perfect...

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Why are we worried about the numbers used on the back on an AMG model? Who cares?

If they want to call it the S 9000 AMG, then so be it. So many more important things in the world then 2 numbers after the S on a Benz.

If you got a probem with it, debadge it and put your own number on it.

 

[GBOY]

Why are we worried about the numbers used on the back on an AMG model? Who cares?

If they want to call it the S 9000 AMG, then so be it. So many more important things in the world then 2 numbers after the S on a Benz.

If you got a probem with it, debadge it and put your own number on it.

I didn't know AMG is a fast Mercedes did you?

 

[south]

Here are some pictures of the S 65 AMG. Enjoy!





Best regards,
south

 

[HighestOfHigh]

What is up with Benz and brown lately? Always a pleasure to see the S65 AMG, but they need to start showing it in Black.

 

[GTA45E]

What is up with Benz and brown lately? Always a pleasure to see the S65 AMG, but they need to start showing it in Black.

I was looking for new shades of brown in the new Benzes, looks nice IMO.
Anyway I like the new changes of the S63.

The next Generation S AMG models should feature the 4-Matic AWD setup, or at least have it as an option. This is one of the reasons the Bentlys sells so well.


Please listen up MB!!!