The iDrive: actually a Benz idea after all?

[coolraoul]

I always thought BMW invented the iDrive concpet, and benz copied it for the W221.
But it is not true, in fact the first to feature a rotary knob to control all functions in the car was a Mercedes-Benz (two concept-cars in 1995 and 1996, the Vario Research Car and the F200).

I think BMW came with that idea only with the 1999 Z9...

Here are extracts from Benz press release and a pic I found in a forum...

The 1995 Mercedes-Benz Vario Research Car:

"Mercedes-Benz engineers had also incorporated a new-style operating and control system into the dashboard of the Vario Research Car which harnessed the wonders of the latest microelectronics to make life easier for the motorist. All key operating information appeared in the form of symbols and text messages on two colour displays integrated into the cockpit and into the top section of the centre console. Easily understood coloured symbols were used to display important information about maintaining the applicable speed limit or a safe distance from the vehicle in front."

1995 Mercedes-Benz Vario Research Car's interior shown below. Notice the knob in the center console, in front of the armrest, and the high screen...



Mercedes F200, 1996

"The remaining display segments within the fields of vision of both driver and co-driver can be programmed at will. The required information can be called up by means of a rotary control: interior climate, navigation, TV, video, video games, PC, on-board computer, radio, CD player, telephone and a "help" function. The interior temperature on the driver's and front passenger's sides, out-side temperature and time of day are permanently displayed. The central display segment shows the area immediately behind the car, filmed by the rear video camera, when the F 200 Imagination is reversing.

The controls for heating, electric windows, swing-out-and-up doors, automatic transmission, lights, hazard warning lights, seat heating and stereo unit are arranged on a panel in front of the display where it is within easy reach of both driver and front passenger. This high-quality stainless steel panel provides a visual link with the stainless steel trim of the bodywork. The switches for the electric seat adjustment with memory function and for footrest adjustment are located in the door trim. A bracket for the mobile phone is mounted to the front stowage compartment in the dashboard. Placing the phone into its bracket activates the hands-off system as well as a new speech recognition system which makes manual handling of the car phone largely superfluous."


From what I know the first BMW to show that feature was the 1999 Z9 Concept and the "Intuitive Interaction Concept", so seems it is not Mercedes who copied...BMW only ddevelopped it faster (in a hurry?), with the result we know in the e65 7er...

I did not knew that, and I'm wondering why Benz did not advertize it?

 

[EnI]

Like said many times:

the idea & solution for central controller & central display was produced by Siemens VDO (their ergonomics department) quite a while ago! And they offered the solution to German car makers. And as you can see all of them have it now. Some implemented it earlier, some later.


Usually the electronic stuff is either:

a) open solution available to everyone
b) exclusive solution (eg. a partner (car maker) has a right to exclusively use the solution exclusively for a certain period of time).

Eg. Central Command system is an open solution, while some other systems (eg. MB's ABC) have been / were exclusive.

 

[PanterroR]

From what I know the first BMW to show that feature was the 1999 Z9 Concept and the "Intuitive Interaction Concept", so seems it is not Mercedes who copied...BMW only ddevelopped it faster (in a hurry?), with the result we know in the e65 7er...

Is that important at all? And who said MB copied iDrive?

And what result? Bunch of journalists that obviously have no clue how to use it? Give me break!

Couldn't care less.

 

[coolraoul]

Is that important at all? And who said MB copied iDrive?

And what result? Bunch of journalists that obviously have no clue how to use it? Give me break!

Couldn't care less.

Well I did thought MB copied BMW on this thing, I really did. They were really inspired by the interior design, they copied the gear level, and I thought they copied the iDrive too (while on the exterior the Maybach Concept in1996 inspired Bangle for the boot). I thought they found the idea excellent and took it, that MB did not thought to it before...

But here it seems MB did not really copy the iDrive, they were thinking to it since a long time and even had/used the idea first!

Everybody, including journalists, said it was a copy-paste, well it is not. (the interior design still almost is, though, I think).

 

[SDNR]

^ LOL .....fanboy fight!

 

[CorpusCallosum]

If you want to get nit-picky I guess you could say they both copied off the guy who invented the computer and the mouse. BMW introduced it into the automotive world, MB has created a better verision and know doubt BMW next effort will again raise the bar. This is evolution of the car industry and car technology.

 

[coolraoul]

Naah, that was only because I was surprised to see it, thought it was a BMW concept that Benz took for the W221 (well, and Audi for the A8).

I thought it was interesting to see that Benz was thinking about it since 1995!

 

[EnI]

Naah, that was only because I was surprised to see it, thought it was a BMW concept that Benz took for the W221 (well, and Audi for the A8).

I thought it was interesting to see that Benz was thinking about it since 1995!

The debate over "who's copying who" is completely irrelevant & shows a certain degree of ignorance how auto industry really operates.

It's funny to see people fighting about copycat-ing when eg some car maker issues a solution few months (or even a year) after its main rival.

Why?

Because it takes years long to develop a car (or any other component).

Yes, sometimes manufacturer A is a pioneer, sometimes it's manufacturer B. It depends on marketing activities, and product planning. Eg. if your complete product line is based on solution A, then a new solution will be introduced when a new platform is introduced. Because it's not easy to implement some solutions on incompatible platforms.

Sometimes it also depends on financial issues: eg. this year a certain tech is way too expensive to implement, so a carmaker A rules out the new solution - although it is almost developed. But in a year or two the price drops, and the rival comes with this new solution - while the carmaker A have to weight till the introduction of a new platform, or at least till LCI.

And as said: recently only a small amount of solutions are developed exclusively by carmaker themselves. Usually new solutions (especially electronic systems, gearboxes, etc) are developed by specialists (eg. BW, ZF, Getrag, Siemens VDO etc) with cooperation with carmakers. Sometimes such cooperations are of more exclusive nature, sometimes they are not. When they are, the partner carmaker can use the solution exclusively for a certain period of time.


In iDrive case BMW was the first one, while eg in some other solution cases MB is faster, or sometimes is Audi - when it comes to introduction of such a solution.


Same case regarding the designs & new models: hardly copying of type ("oh, look - the rivals have A, let's copy that") is possible. Similar products are due same / similar results of market / customer behavior / trend researches.

Yet ... strategies can be copied more easily. Or carmakers have same external consultants (eg. same consulting company).

 

[PanterroR]

^ LOL .....fanboy fight!

Definitely not.

 

[SDNR]

F200

 

[Centurion]

Great! Now I hope bimmer fanatics will stop claiming that the S-class is inspired by the 7er. Nice find Raoul.

 

[PanterroR]

Great! Now I hope bimmer fanatics will stop claiming that the S-class is inspired by the 7er. Nice find Raoul.

Yes, it is. The interior layout; ctrl+c - ctrl+v.

How 'bout that?

 

[EnI]

The 1996 Mercedes-Benz F200 Imagination concept appears to have a similar telematic system.

Not presenting something publicly doesn't necessary mean some company isn't working on some solution.

Sometimes some carmaker shows / introduces some solution first - but it can happen some other manufacturer is working on the same solution for even longer period of time.

Eg. BMW have been working on turbo engines for a long time but waiting for the best possible time to introduce the engines again. It's also about marketing strategy, financial possibilities (development budget), etc.

To understand moves of certain companies a lot of aspect should be considered. Incl. trends, marketing strategy (incl. brand values), financial aspects (R&D figures, purchasing power of certain company, costs of certain tech / materials etc).

Like said many times: today almost all large companies have technological & engineering possibility to develop anything. Yet they are usually limited by budgets & marketing.

 

[coolraoul]

@ Tycoon: And the 7er/6er Bangle-butt has been stolen from the Maybach Concept (BMW Z9 is 1999)...

And Mercedes-Benz created (often with the help of Bosch) the Adaptative Cruise control, the Keyless Go, the ABS, ESP, Airbag, adaptative seats...

Mercedes invented the safety cell, the safety-steering, the safety door-lockers...

The first two real cars in the world are 1886 Benz and 1886 Daimler, the first diesel is a Mercedes-Benz..

Don't you think it is quite ridiculous? Fanboy fight like Rob said.

I only thought it was worth mentionning, especially because a lot of Beemer fans kept saying the S-Class is only a copy of the 7er, which is not true.n Some elements are inspired, of course, but that's all. And some elements of Mercedes inspired the Beemer.

Don't begin a war about that and who copied who. I only said Mercedes DID NOT copy the iDrive from BMW. Period.
If you want to speak about who invented what you'd better be from the Mercedes side, that's fact. But that is not the point here.

 

[Matt530i]

Can we blame Mercedes if plaid seating surfaces become standard?

Seriously though, like Eni said, the appearance of a control interface in a concept vehicle doesn't make it Benz's idea. It would appear that they were the first to showcase the idea in a concept. Either way, all the German companies offer a lot of innovation and saying company A or company B is 'really responsible for idea X' is just going to start a fanboy war.

 

[coolraoul]

Not presenting something publicly doesn't necessary mean some company isn't working on some solution.

Sometimes some carmaker shows / introduces some solution first - but it can happen some other manufacturer is working on the same solution for even longer period of time.

Eg. BMW have been working on turbo engines for a long time but waiting for the best possible time to introduce the engines again. It's also about marketing strategy, financial possibilities (development budget), etc.

To understand moves of certain companies a lot of aspect should be considered. Incl. trends, marketing strategy (incl. brand values), financial aspects (R&D figures, purchasing power of certain company, costs of certain tech / materials etc).

Like said many times: today almost all large companies have technological & engineering possibility to develop anything. Yet they are usually limited by budgets & marketing.

You are right EnI.
I think I've been misunderstood.

A lot of people said: the 7er has an iDrive. MB bought a 7er, saw how iDrive works and put it, slightly improved, in the W221.

Well this proves that MB worked on it since at least 1995, so they were already working on it when the e65 was released. This is not a copy of the iDrive, even if it appears similar.

That is all I wanted to point out!

 

[Zafiro]

Maybe we should go deeper and we might found that germans wasnt first with I-drive at all. I bet the japanese dudes where thinking about this before the germans

 

[PanterroR]

@ Tycoon: And the 7er/6er Bangle-butt has been stolen from the Maybach Concept (BMW Z9 is 1999)...

Hardly.

Don't you think it is quite ridiculous? Fanboy fight like Rob said.

Please restrain of calling me fanboy.

I only thought it was worth mentionning, especially because a lot of Beemer fans kept saying the S-Class is only a copy of the 7er, which is not true.n Some elements are inspired, of course, but that's all. And some elements of Mercedes inspired the Beemer.

S class is NOT a copy of 7er, just the interior reminds a lot on 7er, nothing else.

Don't begin a war about that and who copied who. I only said Mercedes DID NOT copy the iDrive from BMW. Period.
If you want to speak about who invented what you'd better be from the Mercedes side, that's fact. But that is not the point here.

I'm not starting war, it's you, so please.

 

[bmer]

Great! Now I hope bimmer fanatics will stop claiming that the S-class is inspired by the 7er. Nice find Raoul.

I don't see raoul saying that, Luw. On the contrary actually.

Well I did thought MB copied BMW on this thing, I really did. They were really inspired by the interior design, they copied the gear level, and I thought they copied the iDrive too

 

[coolraoul]

Yes, it is. The interior layout; ctrl+c - ctrl+v.

How 'bout that?

This looks like war declaration...

Anyway, the interior layout IS inspired. I'm the first to recognize it.

But the Controller is not a copy of the iDrive. Both worked on it, period. No copy here. I thought the contrary, actually.
So this is here for information purpose...

I did not wanted to open a war or anything, I found this information interesting, I put it here. End of story.

Maybe the title of the topic should be changed?