Vs Test Weights vs Kerb Weight


DataHunter

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The issue of weight often crops up in discussions about cars, and I think there's a lack of understanding which often leads to poor comparison*. All too often, manufacturers quote a car's "dry" weight (without driver, fluids, or fuel), a metric which bears no resemblance to its weight in working order.

Calculating a car's operational weight from its dry weight requires that you have a copy of its owner's manual at the ready, in addition to relevant product literature about its various coolants, fluids and oils. This may seem insignificant, but the difference between a test weight and dry weight can be as much as 200 kg (a driver and a full fuel tank account for roughly 140 kg alone); without knowing it, we might be comparing vehicles unfairly.

Luckily, magazines regularly measure a vehicle's weight for road tests; the result is a more realistic picture of kerb weight. Unfortunately, stark differences between magazines can muddy the waters of our understanding. In the following example, extreme differences in reported kerb weight can be seen:

Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera

Auto (Italy): 1592 kg (700 kg front, 892 kg rear)
Auto Motor und Sport: 1484 kg
Automobilismo: 1542.8 kg (658.6 kg front, 884.2 kg rear)
Sport Auto: 1493 kg

The biggest discrepancy is a whopping 98 kg! Most would assume that surely these magazines use different methods for measuring/reporting vehicle kerb weights; a valid assumption were it not for the fact that these same tests were conducted for the Ferrari 458 Italia, which led to the following numbers:

Auto (Italy): 1528 kg (651 kg front, 877 kg rear)
Auto Motor und Sport: 1544 kg
Automobilismo: 1544.0 kg (657.2 kg front, 886.8 kg rear)
Sport Auto: 1540 kg

That's a maximum kerb weight discrepancy of just 16 kg, or just about about one percent. In this instance, the numbers are very consistent. The conclusion we should draw from the Ferrari 458 numbers is that the magazines use the same methodology for reporting or measuring weight - something which sits in stark contrast to the conclusions reached above.

Clearly, a car's measured kerb weight changes based on fuel level (at a density of 0.755 kg/L, a 90 L fuel tank accounts for about 68 kg of mass) and number of occupants (the agreed-upon standard appears to be 70 or 75 kg). I would therefore like to know exactly how these factors are controlled for in each magazine's measurements. For instance, the DIN standard for kerb weight measurements clearly specifies 90% fuel and no occupants; whereas the EU standard retains the same fuel level and adds a 75 kg driver.

If we can standardize these measurements, it would be enormously beneficial for making an accurate comparison between vehicles. As we determine each magazine's method of kerb weight reporting, I'll update the list below to reflect that.

DIN standard: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg driver
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild:
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport:
AutoZeitung:
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote:
Road and Track:
Sport Auto:
Sport Auto (France):

*not the least of which is the fact that people frequently confuse weight with mass; the former is a force which results from a gravitational field, the other is a measurement of linear inertia.

DIN standard: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg payload (68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage)
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild (and AutoBild Sportscars): 100% fuel; no driver
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport: 100% fuel; no driver
AutoZeitung: 100% fuel; no driver
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote: 100% fuel; 100 kg payload (driver and instruments)
Road and Track:
Sport Auto: 100% fuel; no driver
Sport Auto (France):

List Updated:

DIN standard
: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg payload (68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage)
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild (and AutoBild Sportscars): 100% fuel; no driver
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport: 100% fuel; no driver
AutoZeitung: 100% fuel; no driver
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote: 100% fuel; 100 kg payload (driver and instruments)
Road and Track:
Sport Auto: 100% fuel; no driver
Sport Auto (France):
 
I
The issue of weight often crops up in discussions about cars, and I think there's a lack of understanding which often leads to poor comparison*. All too often, manufacturers quote a car's "dry" weight (without driver, fluids, or fuel), a metric which bears no resemblance to its weight in working order.

Calculating a car's operational weight from it...
I think that the EU number was 68 kg driver and 7 kg luggage. Yes, it is the same 75 kg , but with the idea that the drivers in Europe are slim
 
AutoBild, AutoBild Sportscars, Auto Motor und Sport, Sport Auto and Auto Zeitung:
full tank of fuel, full of fluids, without driver.

Quattroruote: full tank of fuel, full of fluids +100 kgs additionally (as "driver+instruments")
 
The other thing I failed to mention was the consistency of these standards over time (i.e. did the magazines always test with full tank of fuel?). I'm also curious to know whether they've written anything about their practices.

Also, I lack the ability to edit my original post, so I can't update the list.
 
Some poor drivers should do without instruments with this weight restriction.

I agree. The instrumentation can be pretty intense for some of these magazine tests; while some will use a VBOX sport (a product I, and many other enthusiasts own), others will go all out and invest in lots of detailed telemetry. Granted, I cannot conceive of what 30-something kg of equipment would look like...
 
You can post your updated list here, we can update your original post for you.

Thank you! Here is the updated list.

DIN standard
: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg payload (68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage)
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild (and AutoBild Sportscars): 100% fuel; no driver
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport: 100% fuel; no driver
AutoZeitung: 100% fuel; no driver
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote: 100% fuel; 100 kg payload (driver and instruments)
Road and Track:
Sport Auto: 100% fuel; no driver
Sport Auto (France):
 
Great idea for a thread!

Can we open a separate thread for which manufacturer cheats the most when it comes to claimed vs. as tested/real world weight?

My nominations, in order of dishonesty, are:
1) JLR
2) Ferrari
3) FCA
 
My nominations, in order of dishonesty, are:
1) JLR
2) Ferrari
3) FCA

Ferrari have gotten marginally better these days, admitting that their quoted kerb weight considers "the most favorable options." Although (I suspect) they neglect to mention that their quoted weights are for cars with empty fuel tanks. When you factor in the fuel, their numbers are a bit more believable. For example:

The Ferrari 458 owner's manual quotes a kerb weight of 1485 kg (very different from their original "dry" weight claim of 1380 kg). With the 86L fuel tank (at 0.755 kg/L fuel), this works out to 1550 kg; roughly the same as the magazine numbers above.

Still, it's no secret that sports car manufacturers use as many tricks as they can to claim the lowest possible kerb weight.
 
I wish that manufacturers would follow Porsche's example and list the car's kerb weight in the brochure according to a known (DIN or EU) standard.

It is, after all, impossible to know what their quoted numbers are in reference to. If it's ridiculously low, one might safely assume that it's a stripped-out version with no fluids of fuel in it whatsoever.
 
I think Quattroruote is 2/3 fuel

Interesting. Dede says it's a full tank plus 100 kg (I also distinctly remember the 100 kg part elsewhere).

Did Quattroruote ever publish any information on their procedures? I'd imagine that would prove very useful; it's also quite plausible that they could've changed at some point.
 
Now i'm not at home, so i can't find a magazine. In this old test they say 2/3.
 

Attachments

  • f 40.webp
Brilliant find! The table looks like this now:

DIN standard: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg payload (68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage)
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild (and AutoBild Sportscars): 100% fuel; no driver
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport: 100% fuel; no driver
AutoZeitung: 100% fuel; no driver
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote: 2/3 fuel; 100 kg payload (driver and instruments)
Road and Track:
Sport Auto: 100% fuel; no driver
Sport Auto (France):

Granted, it is still entirely possible that they switched to the full tank of fuel some time later; if so, I'd like to figure out when.
 
I certainly agree that for many years Ferrari have been claiming over optimistic light weight figures for their cars that are not comparable to the actual measured weight figure. One car I can think of was pretty accurate was the F40, where its claimed weight was not far off the measured weight but the later models like the 458 mentioned above and the La Ferrari have been totally over bloated in reality compared to actual claimed figures. La Ferrari fueled up and with other liquids and hifi and lift up system tips the scales at 1650kg while dry claimed is 1255kg if I am correct, even they claimed 1480kg in the owners manual.
 
The case just gets curiouser and curiouser with Quattroruote; in a test of the 512BB vs Diablo, they used a 1/3 tank of fuel.

512-diablo-0016.webp 512-diablo-0018.webp

Which makes the chart look like ...this?

DIN standard: 90% fuel; no driver
EU standard: 90% fuel; 75 kg payload (68 kg driver, 7 kg luggage)
Auto (Italy):
AutoBild (and AutoBild Sportscars): 100% fuel; no driver
Autocar:
Automobilismo:
Auto Motor und Sport: 100% fuel; no driver
AutoZeitung: 100% fuel; no driver
Car and Driver:
Quattroruote:

100% fuel; 100 kg payload (driver and instruments) - today?
2/3 fuel; unknown kg (driver and equipment) - the mid 1990s(?)
1/3 fuel; unknown kg (driver and equipment) - the early 1990s

Road and Track:
Sport Auto: 100% fuel; no driver
Sport Auto (France):


La Ferrari fueled up and with other liquids and hifi and lift up system tips the scales at 1650kg while dry claimed is 1255kg if I am correct, even they claimed 1480kg in the owners manual.

Yeah, options are another thing to consider: who knows how much they might affect the operational weight of the vehicle. The 1480 to 1650 conundrum is very likely the result of a missing tank of fuel (88 L or 66 kg), the driver (70-something kg - although I don't know if it was measured with the driver) and lots of mechanical options. Given its KERS system and berserk engine, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the LaFerrari requires a lot more coolant and fluids than most cars - although Ferrari's 1255 kg dry weight is certainly pushing it.
 
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