LS Test - Lexus LS460L

[Merc1]

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Verdict
8 stars out of 10

The latest LS460 builds on the LS heritage of supreme refinement and silky-smooth V8s, but this time it’s bigger, betterlooking and brimming with even more technology. If comfort and convenience are enough for you, the LS is a fine luxury car. What’s missing, though, is the confidence of assured and instant power and a sense of occasion.

http://autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/RoadTestsHistory/Lexus-LS-460-SE-L/223764/

I so want to like this car like I do their LF-A concept, but alas something is missing. I do agree with them though on the styling, it is the best looking LS yet by far.

M

 

[PanterroR]

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In this photo - S class wannabe.

 

[Merc1]

Well we all know that their main mission has never changed even though the looks (a leopard's spots) have. If you ever get a chance to see the U.S. IS350 brochure you'll really see what a wannabe is all about. It was photographed completely in Germany and talks about Germany constantly. You'd think the IS250/350 was German! That is my main problem with Lexus, sure they make boring cars for the most part, but a lot of brands do...it is their wannabe status and how they want to be Mercedes and now BMW. Infiniti has BMW as their target too, but they don't look like BMWs. I can't respect Lexus until they grow their own.

M

 

[Bruce]

Thank you for the test Merc1

I can't express how much I like the new LS, I know I'd buy one in a second if I could.

 

[PanterroR]

Thank you for the test Merc1

I can't express how much I like the new LS, I know I'd buy one in a second if I could.

You're banned now! Please leave!

 

[Bruce]

You're banned now! Please leave!

It's quite a predicament huh..I'm probably the only real Lexus fan on GermanCarForum

 

[PanterroR]

 

[cawimmer430]

Well we all know that their main mission has never changed even though the looks (a leopard's spots) have. If you ever get a chance to see the U.S. IS350 brochure you'll really see what a wannabe is all about. It was photographed completely in Germany and talks about Germany constantly. You'd think the IS250/350 was German! That is my main problem with Lexus, sure they make boring cars for the most part, but a lot of brands do...it is their wannabe status and how they want to be Mercedes and now BMW. Infiniti has BMW as their target too, but they don't look like BMWs. I can't respect Lexus until they grow their own.

M

I recall some people talking about how the RX was marketed as having the "handling qualities of a BMW X5" in the US. Can you confirm this? Some folks on Car and Driver complained about that.

 

[Mr. M]

It's quite a predicament huh..I'm probably the only real Lexus fan on GermanCarForum

How can you exclude me?!

BTW, the new LS is really enticing. My dad would most probably get a LS600L in the future when he ever decides to change his Phaeton, unless the Germans find a way to price as competitively as Lexus does. As good as the German trio are there is a certain threshold when you finally realise that the LS is the better deal after all.

 

[Bruce]

How can you exclude me?!

I didn't want to speak for you Perhaps you only like the new LS and not the whole line up (or past models)

But of course, I knew you liked the LS

 

[Merc1]

I recall some people talking about how the RX was marketed as having the "handling qualities of a BMW X5" in the US. Can you confirm this? Some folks on Car and Driver complained about that.

I seem to remember something like that but in all fairness I don't really remember. They did try to market the RX400h as some type of "peformance" SUV, but that flopped pretty fast.

M

 

[cawimmer430]

My dad would most probably get a LS600L in the future when he ever decides to change his Phaeton, unless the Germans find a way to price as competitively as Lexus does.

Why should they though?

Those who want a Mercedes, want a Mercedes. Those who want a BMW, want a BMW...and so on.

There's a big market out there of people willing to pay the extra money for the perceived prestige factor the high price gives them. Some wealthy people in Japan are good example of this as I learned in a business case study. The Japanese are very image conscious. When it comes to luxury cars, they'd rather spend their money on something that screams "I AM RICH" like a European luxury car for example.

Lexus knows it cannot compete against the Europeans in terms of prestige, so they emphasize value for money. To me, a luxury car means excess and therefore thoughts about value shouldn't even occur in my mind.

One of the reasons why Lexus is so "cheap" in America is because the Japanese buy a lot of American Dollars to keep their currency artifically weak and make their products cheaper in this market. It's called an illegal trade practice. The Euro is very competitive with the American Dollar, and hence, our products are more expensive in the US. Add to that the European luxury makers strategy of prestige pricing.

If Lexus could charge the prices the Europeans are asking, they would. But they can't, so they're hoping to hook people with cheaper and better equipped cars.

The Europeans on the other can ask for these high prices because they've got the history, motorsport success, classic cars etc. that have built their brand name. Lexus has none of that. To me, Lexus has no prestige. It might be different in America and Asia, but as good as Lexus cars are, to me, they still have that TOYOTA stuff written all over them. To me, a luxury brand and car is all about history, tradition, innovation etc. Lexus hasn't done anything really, except shake up the North American market with their cheaper, better-equipped and reliable products. That's it. They're great cars, but they're not in my opinion even on the same prestige level as the Germans, and possibly will never be.

You see the German brands really polishing their image through museums. Mercedes just built a great museum. BMW and Porsche are following suit. Audi and VW are bound to follow. When you walk through these museums, you see history, tradition, innovation and passion. Lexus doesn't have classic cars, and the only "classic" Lexus I can think off is the original LS400. The rest are not even close.

Sorry for the long post, but as a marketing guy who loves Mercedes-Benz, I don't see any reason for them (or Audi / BMW etc.) to lower their prices to compete with Lexus. Rather, they should keep their prestige pricing policy but at the same time add more value to their cars through more standard equipment and of course emphasis on brand prestige, safety and hopefully reliability.

 

[cawimmer430]

I seem to remember something like that but in all fairness I don't really remember. They did try to market the RX400h as some type of "peformance" SUV, but that flopped pretty fast.

M

Lexus seems to be marketing all their hybrids as "performance cars". I don't get it. Since when are super fast cars with wobbly handling considered "performance cars"?

It's gotten so bad, the Lexus fanboys on Autospies are making everyone snicker when they said that:

The Lexus LS600h will destroy the Mercedes S600 in acceleration, fuel economy and is more environmentally friendly too!

I'm fed up with these idiots and their lack of respect for others brands. Since they only hang out on www.lexus.com, they fail to see that the S-Class has won numerous awards for environmental protection through the use of recycled materials inside the car. The floor mats are made from coconut fibers for example - an abundant raw material found in South East Asia for example.

 

[RICHBOY]

It's quite a predicament huh..I'm probably the only real Lexus fan on GermanCarForum

Nope , you got a friend hear! Lexus makes a great product and everone know's it whether they admit it or not. I read so much hate on this form towards Lexus it makes me think everyone is trying to out due the previous
posted insult. It's alright though if you think about it, your the cool one for taking the path less traveled rather than following the pack. Even in area's wear Lexus is obviously better than comperable German rivals the talk turns to who cares about that, that's stupid, only a Lexus fanboy would care about that! Which only goes to show their undeniable bias.

P.S Stay true to your feeling regardless of judgemental
responses!

 

[Bruce]

P.S Stay true to your feeling regardless of judgemental
responses!

Thanks

Don't worry, my opinion doesn't change with other's input.

Some people hate Lexus, some don't ...either way, it's their opinion, which I respect.

 

[Mr. M]

Why should they though?

Those who want a Mercedes, want a Mercedes. Those who want a BMW, want a BMW...and so on.

There's a big market out there of people willing to pay the extra money for the perceived prestige factor the high price gives them. Some wealthy people in Japan are good example of this as I learned in a business case study. The Japanese are very image conscious. When it comes to luxury cars, they'd rather spend their money on something that screams "I AM RICH" like a European luxury car for example.

Lexus knows it cannot compete against the Europeans in terms of prestige, so they emphasize value for money. To me, a luxury car means excess and therefore thoughts about value shouldn't even occur in my mind.

One of the reasons why Lexus is so "cheap" in America is because the Japanese buy a lot of American Dollars to keep their currency artifically weak and make their products cheaper in this market. It's called an illegal trade practice. The Euro is very competitive with the American Dollar, and hence, our products are more expensive in the US. Add to that the European luxury makers strategy of prestige pricing.

If Lexus could charge the prices the Europeans are asking, they would. But they can't, so they're hoping to hook people with cheaper and better equipped cars.

The Europeans on the other can ask for these high prices because they've got the history, motorsport success, classic cars etc. that have built their brand name. Lexus has none of that. To me, Lexus has no prestige. It might be different in America and Asia, but as good as Lexus cars are, to me, they still have that TOYOTA stuff written all over them. To me, a luxury brand and car is all about history, tradition, innovation etc. Lexus hasn't done anything really, except shake up the North American market with their cheaper, better-equipped and reliable products. That's it. They're great cars, but they're not in my opinion even on the same prestige level as the Germans, and possibly will never be.

You see the German brands really polishing their image through museums. Mercedes just built a great museum. BMW and Porsche are following suit. Audi and VW are bound to follow. When you walk through these museums, you see history, tradition, innovation and passion. Lexus doesn't have classic cars, and the only "classic" Lexus I can think off is the original LS400. The rest are not even close.

Sorry for the long post, but as a marketing guy who loves Mercedes-Benz, I don't see any reason for them (or Audi / BMW etc.) to lower their prices to compete with Lexus. Rather, they should keep their prestige pricing policy but at the same time add more value to their cars through more standard equipment and of course emphasis on brand prestige, safety and hopefully reliability.

I get what you mean Christian, and I agree with most part to your post.

Although Lexus relies on competitive pricing to sell its cars, not all the time this is the case - it is also possible that with streamlined manufacturing processes as well as more efficient workers, Lexus can make their cars cheaply. A case in point: the trade unions in Germany are squeezing the carmakers for their high wages. Nothing of this sort in Japan.

 

[cawimmer430]

I get what you mean Christian, and I agree with most part to your post.

Although Lexus relies on competitive pricing to sell its cars, not all the time this is the case - it is also possible that with streamlined manufacturing processes as well as more efficient workers, Lexus can make their cars cheaply. A case in point: the trade unions in Germany are squeezing the carmakers for their high wages. Nothing of this sort in Japan.

That's true as well. Labour wages in Germany are expensive, and companies always come into conflicts with unions about them lately. Every major company in Germany, one of the chairmen is always a representative of a labour union. And they b*tch all the time.

 

[bmer]

Excuse me, Chris but why do you have to bring Autospies and your personal problems with Lexus in almost every new Lexus thread we have? I think we've had enough threads about Lexus vs. the Germans. This is a thread about Autocar's LS460L test so could you please stay on subject? Sorry to sound rude but it's getting a bit annoying...

 

[RICHBOY]

Excuse me, Wimmer but why do you have to bring Autospies and your personal problems with Lexus in every new Lexus thread we have? I think we've had enough threads about Lexus vs. the Germans. This is a thread about Autocar's LS460L test so could you please stay on subject?

This could get ugly!

 

[bmer]

This could get ugly!

No it's not going to get ugly. You haven't been here enough long to know what we're like. I know Chris is not a person who will "lose it" and neither am I.