BRZ SUBARU BRZ
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The Toyota 86 and the Subaru BRZ are 2+2 sports cars jointly developed by Toyota and Subaru, manufactured at Subaru's Gunma assembly plant.
Cashmere
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yep
NarutoRamen
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That's what I was gonna say.
Evo Magazine first drive
Driven: Subaru BRZ
Rating:
Hot on the heels of the new Toyota GT 86, we've driven its sister car, the Subaru BRZ. Can a rear-wheel drive coupe really be a true Subaru?
By Mike Duff
December 2011
What is it?
Subaru’s all-new sports coupe, driven for the first time on a Japanese test track. The BRZ is the sister car to the Toyota GT 86 that we’ve just tested, with both cars being differentiated by barely more than badging, wheels and the shape of their radiator grilles.
It’s set to go on sale in the UK in June next year, and although prices haven’t been confirmed, it’s anticipated to cost somewhere between £25K and £28K.
Technical highlights?
The Subaru is mechanically (almost) identical to the Toyota – the only difference of note between the two cars is that the BRZ gets marginally stiffer suspension settings. But, although the two brands are officially happy to split the corporate acclaim, it’s worth nothing that the project was almost entirely engineered by Subaru, and both cars will be produced in its factory.
The creation of a new lightweight sportscar, powered by an all-new boxer engine, is an impressive achievement for a company of Subaru’s relatively modest size. And although there are some links between the BRZ/ GT 86 and the next Subaru Impreza, including shared bit of floorpan, the relationship is a distant one. Somewhat amazingly, the new ‘FA20’ 2-litre boxer engine in the BRZ is almost entirely unrelated to naturally aspirated boxer engines that will power the next Impreza. The coupe’s motor is more compact, lower and lighter – sitting 240mm further back in the chassis.
Suspension has been derived from the Impreza, but cleverly reworked with the lower arms of the front McPherson struts turned back-to-front to make the minimal front overhang possible. Twin wishbones at the back are pure Impreza, but the BRZ gets a larger differential to cater for the fact it's rear-drive only.
One of the engineering team’s core aims was to give the lowest possible centre of gravity – just 460mm. Toyota likes to point out that this is lower than the C-of-G of a Porsche Boxster, Subaru preferred to tell us that the figure was better than that of 458 Italia. Clever weight saving includes the use of high-strength in the roof and upper structure of the car, to reduce mass further, and even the use of thinner glass for windscreen and side windows.
What’s it like to drive?
Our too-brief drive, on Subaru’s smooth (and sodden) test track was too short to deliver any kind of definitive verdict – not least as Subaru unsportingly sent the cars out with chaperones in the passenger seat to prevent any deactivation of the stability control system.
But with that read into the record, first impressions are good – very good. The BRZ doesn’t feel particularly rapid in a straight line – the naturally aspirated motor needs to be thrashed to deliver its best, with peak power coming at a heady 7000rpm. Taken all the way to the redline the BRZ should be capable of dispatching 0-60mph in just under second seconds (I guessed 6.7 and my chaperone just smiled), but it feels like the gearing has been very carefully chosen for the benchmark – the manual transmission (just) allows 100km/h in second gear. Actually getting a sub-7 0-60 would mean interfacing with the rev limiter a couple of tenths afterwards.
But it’s corners that make the BRZ special – even wet ones – with a beautifully poised chassis that talks to the driver through exceptionally communicative electric power steering. Take too much speed into a corner and there’s well-flagged understeer, but judge your entry speed right and then use the immediately reactive throttle to bring the car to the point where the rear tyres are just running out of grip and it’s clear that this is a car that really wants to play. The ‘sport’ setting for the stability control - which I was allowed to activate - even allows a modest slip angle before the yellow light starts flashing and everything gets reined in.
The automatic option, anticipated to be a minority of sales in the UK, is less impressive with a slight delay in response, even when control is taken through the paddles behind the steering wheel. It’s a conventional torque-converter auto, and even trick electronics can’t give it reactions to match a DSG.
How does it compare?
It’s going to be down to price – and the strong value of the Yen means that Subaru’s UK distributors are unable to confirm what the car will actually cost when it gets here next summer. Reckon on around £25,000 for the basic version and between £28,000 to £30,000 for the higher spec model. But on first impressions, the BRZ feels more than capable of taking the fight to rivals like the Audi TT, BMW 1-Coupe and even – power deficit withstanding – the Porsche Cayman.
Versus the Toyota, though? That’s a tricky one – design is always subjective, but we reckon the GT 86 looks slightly better. But with Subaru UK anticipating selling around 1000 cars a year – versus 4000 for the Toyota – the BRZ is always going to be a more exclusive option.
Anything else I need to know?
The base model (which we didn't drive) sounds like it might be a bit of a star – it will come with 16 inch wheels in place of the 17s on our test car, which may well work better on British roads. Its lack of toys and gizmos (Subaru is even threatening to give it black door handles in place of body-coloured ones) could suit the minimalist nature of the car.
evo Rating
Beautiful chassis balance, spot-on electric power steering
Needs to be revved to deliver, not as good looking as GT 86
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276025/driven_subaru_brz.html
Driven: Subaru BRZ
Rating:
Hot on the heels of the new Toyota GT 86, we've driven its sister car, the Subaru BRZ. Can a rear-wheel drive coupe really be a true Subaru?
By Mike Duff
December 2011
What is it?
Subaru’s all-new sports coupe, driven for the first time on a Japanese test track. The BRZ is the sister car to the Toyota GT 86 that we’ve just tested, with both cars being differentiated by barely more than badging, wheels and the shape of their radiator grilles.
It’s set to go on sale in the UK in June next year, and although prices haven’t been confirmed, it’s anticipated to cost somewhere between £25K and £28K.
Technical highlights?
The Subaru is mechanically (almost) identical to the Toyota – the only difference of note between the two cars is that the BRZ gets marginally stiffer suspension settings. But, although the two brands are officially happy to split the corporate acclaim, it’s worth nothing that the project was almost entirely engineered by Subaru, and both cars will be produced in its factory.
The creation of a new lightweight sportscar, powered by an all-new boxer engine, is an impressive achievement for a company of Subaru’s relatively modest size. And although there are some links between the BRZ/ GT 86 and the next Subaru Impreza, including shared bit of floorpan, the relationship is a distant one. Somewhat amazingly, the new ‘FA20’ 2-litre boxer engine in the BRZ is almost entirely unrelated to naturally aspirated boxer engines that will power the next Impreza. The coupe’s motor is more compact, lower and lighter – sitting 240mm further back in the chassis.
Suspension has been derived from the Impreza, but cleverly reworked with the lower arms of the front McPherson struts turned back-to-front to make the minimal front overhang possible. Twin wishbones at the back are pure Impreza, but the BRZ gets a larger differential to cater for the fact it's rear-drive only.
One of the engineering team’s core aims was to give the lowest possible centre of gravity – just 460mm. Toyota likes to point out that this is lower than the C-of-G of a Porsche Boxster, Subaru preferred to tell us that the figure was better than that of 458 Italia. Clever weight saving includes the use of high-strength in the roof and upper structure of the car, to reduce mass further, and even the use of thinner glass for windscreen and side windows.
What’s it like to drive?
Our too-brief drive, on Subaru’s smooth (and sodden) test track was too short to deliver any kind of definitive verdict – not least as Subaru unsportingly sent the cars out with chaperones in the passenger seat to prevent any deactivation of the stability control system.
But with that read into the record, first impressions are good – very good. The BRZ doesn’t feel particularly rapid in a straight line – the naturally aspirated motor needs to be thrashed to deliver its best, with peak power coming at a heady 7000rpm. Taken all the way to the redline the BRZ should be capable of dispatching 0-60mph in just under second seconds (I guessed 6.7 and my chaperone just smiled), but it feels like the gearing has been very carefully chosen for the benchmark – the manual transmission (just) allows 100km/h in second gear. Actually getting a sub-7 0-60 would mean interfacing with the rev limiter a couple of tenths afterwards.
But it’s corners that make the BRZ special – even wet ones – with a beautifully poised chassis that talks to the driver through exceptionally communicative electric power steering. Take too much speed into a corner and there’s well-flagged understeer, but judge your entry speed right and then use the immediately reactive throttle to bring the car to the point where the rear tyres are just running out of grip and it’s clear that this is a car that really wants to play. The ‘sport’ setting for the stability control - which I was allowed to activate - even allows a modest slip angle before the yellow light starts flashing and everything gets reined in.
The automatic option, anticipated to be a minority of sales in the UK, is less impressive with a slight delay in response, even when control is taken through the paddles behind the steering wheel. It’s a conventional torque-converter auto, and even trick electronics can’t give it reactions to match a DSG.
How does it compare?
It’s going to be down to price – and the strong value of the Yen means that Subaru’s UK distributors are unable to confirm what the car will actually cost when it gets here next summer. Reckon on around £25,000 for the basic version and between £28,000 to £30,000 for the higher spec model. But on first impressions, the BRZ feels more than capable of taking the fight to rivals like the Audi TT, BMW 1-Coupe and even – power deficit withstanding – the Porsche Cayman.
Versus the Toyota, though? That’s a tricky one – design is always subjective, but we reckon the GT 86 looks slightly better. But with Subaru UK anticipating selling around 1000 cars a year – versus 4000 for the Toyota – the BRZ is always going to be a more exclusive option.
Anything else I need to know?
The base model (which we didn't drive) sounds like it might be a bit of a star – it will come with 16 inch wheels in place of the 17s on our test car, which may well work better on British roads. Its lack of toys and gizmos (Subaru is even threatening to give it black door handles in place of body-coloured ones) could suit the minimalist nature of the car.
evo Rating
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/276025/driven_subaru_brz.html
hoffmeister_fan
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^^^They do say that the suspension in the Subie's a bit stiffer. At least that's what was said in the Toyota review.
I thought their drive was identical. If that is true, chalk one more up for the scooby.
hoffmeister_fan
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Darn it, I thought it was in Evo review of the GT86, but it was in the BRZ review.
Here's the quote: "The Subaru is mechanically (almost) identical to the Toyota – the only difference of note between the two cars is that the BRZ gets marginally stiffer suspension settings."
Driven: Subaru BRZ review and pictures | evo
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Yup, they're exactly the same car with slightly different suspension settings.
And I would choose the Subaru.
But this time the GT86 is a cross dressed BRZ and not the other way around
And I would choose the Subaru.
But this time the GT86 is a cross dressed BRZ and not the other way around
hoffmeister_fan
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AUTOBLOG First Drive
2013 Subaru BRZ
One quote that did catch my eye
"There's no turbo, and no plans to include one."
EDIT: As I read even further, here's another quote regarding suspension differences between the Toyota and Subaru
"Of note, we were told that the Toyota/Scion version has softer suspension settings up front, harder settings in the rear."
Love this photo:
2013 Subaru BRZ
One quote that did catch my eye
"There's no turbo, and no plans to include one."
EDIT: As I read even further, here's another quote regarding suspension differences between the Toyota and Subaru
"Of note, we were told that the Toyota/Scion version has softer suspension settings up front, harder settings in the rear."
Love this photo:
Amazing? Really? This is a genuine question. Can you tell me what is so amazing about this interior? To me it looks like the horrid japanese interiors from the 80s-90s
Amazigly hard shiny plastics everywhere from the dash to the center console. Acres of ill fitting painted silver surfaces literally blinding the driver (I'm blinded just be looking at the photo). Nasty digital clock unchanged from 1980. Nasty switches also unchanged from 1980. Binnacle is the same from early 1990s japanese cars, using the same ancient dials/graphics (if you can call it that), lights. Those interiors looked terrible back in the day let alone in 2012. And please don't tell me this is a cheap car so a cheap interior is expected. I am not comparing it to an audi but even a 10k euro vw up has an interior that looks and feels several classes above.
Here is a picture of a Bell & Ross clock you get in 28K euro french coupe for comparison purposes.
Even x1 interior which is the worst german interior I had the displeasure of sitting in, in the last 10 years, is better than this subaru. Now subarus always had terrible interiors but it never detracted from the fun as with 300bhp your eyes were always peeled through the windscreen or side window but that doesn't make the the interior amazing.
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- Martin
No, no come now, let's not get into a bun fight or turn this into RCZ vs BRZ.
The sorry fact of life is that, barring the previous generation Legacy / Outback, Subarus have the most rubbish quality plastics this side of Tupperware. And thus it will remain a shame that seemingly this new interior sticks to the old recipe - a decidedly disappointing one at that. No one here knows this better than me, 5th time round, I might add.
On the flipside it's not very well known or spoken about subject but it's interesting to note that the PSA group (once the purveyor of the most horrid interiors - 306, 405, Saxo et al) have a distinct strategy in place to spend less on engineering and more on exterior design and interior quality. Look at the new DS4 and DS5 - stylish looks and exquisitely appointed interiors - but both are based upon mediocre mid-market hatchback underpinnings: transverse-FWD upfront, cheap unsophisticated torsion beam axle at the back. The thinking behind it? Well how many people have cooking clue that their fancy looking fashion statement has a cheap hatchback foundation? Same applies to the RCZ - and in all credit to the car - it does get good 4 star reviews from the most demanding publications out there.
Point is, if you're looking for excellent mechanicals and engineering, coupled with a really good quality interior then you need to buy a Mercedes Benz or a BMW and be prepared to pay for the premium. It's purely a balancing act in the quest for profitability.
So, my two cars have got rubbish interiors but what's not seen by Joe Public? Do they even know or care that they have double wishbone suspension at the rear axle? Do they know that there's a propshaft running toward the back wheels? Do they care about long-travel suspension, heavy duty springs and dampers? Nope.
Same goes for the Toyobaru twins. The engineering department got more of the R & D budget than the interior guys did. This is small-scale production with a unique engineering approach and something had to give elsewhere. Hence, the less-than-enticing interior.
You pay for what you get and you get what you paid for.
The sorry fact of life is that, barring the previous generation Legacy / Outback, Subarus have the most rubbish quality plastics this side of Tupperware. And thus it will remain a shame that seemingly this new interior sticks to the old recipe - a decidedly disappointing one at that. No one here knows this better than me, 5th time round, I might add.
On the flipside it's not very well known or spoken about subject but it's interesting to note that the PSA group (once the purveyor of the most horrid interiors - 306, 405, Saxo et al) have a distinct strategy in place to spend less on engineering and more on exterior design and interior quality. Look at the new DS4 and DS5 - stylish looks and exquisitely appointed interiors - but both are based upon mediocre mid-market hatchback underpinnings: transverse-FWD upfront, cheap unsophisticated torsion beam axle at the back. The thinking behind it? Well how many people have cooking clue that their fancy looking fashion statement has a cheap hatchback foundation? Same applies to the RCZ - and in all credit to the car - it does get good 4 star reviews from the most demanding publications out there.
Point is, if you're looking for excellent mechanicals and engineering, coupled with a really good quality interior then you need to buy a Mercedes Benz or a BMW and be prepared to pay for the premium. It's purely a balancing act in the quest for profitability.
So, my two cars have got rubbish interiors but what's not seen by Joe Public? Do they even know or care that they have double wishbone suspension at the rear axle? Do they know that there's a propshaft running toward the back wheels? Do they care about long-travel suspension, heavy duty springs and dampers? Nope.
Same goes for the Toyobaru twins. The engineering department got more of the R & D budget than the interior guys did. This is small-scale production with a unique engineering approach and something had to give elsewhere. Hence, the less-than-enticing interior.
You pay for what you get and you get what you paid for.
For such an ugly, bad handling, slow and expensive car it does alright to more than fend off three 2l turbocharged competitors: http://www.germancarforum.com/internal-combustion/37181-scans-autobild-sportscars-tt-tfsi-vs-genesis-coupe-rcz-200-scirocco-tsi.html
And a 7.5s 0-100km of the rcz should tell you one thing and one thing only, just how anaeminc the brz engine is. The rcz is around 200kg heavier, fwd and needs 3rd to reach 100km/h. (ofcourse you wouldn't know that by just looking at the two 0-100 times, which is what sells). n/a are gutless so are very short geared to make most of they limp wristed engines (we are talking small capacity here). While a clio rs or ctr are fast/fun on the track/boil everywhere else there are slow and noisy as you're always at 4000rpm whether on the motorway or in the city due to the stupid gearing. You can remap an rcz for a few pennies and the brz won't see which way you went (straight line) if you care about that. Btw rcz won many design contests and I can bet how many the brz will win. (For the record I also do not like the rcz design/front but that doesn't make it automatically ugly, and if I hear one more time that design is subjective I will post an image of a pontiac aztech or whatever it's called)
hoffmeister_fan
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Design is subjective
EDIT: I figure I should elaborate before my mild ribbing leads to something....
Personally, to me, the interior is not the interior that ends all interiors. But it looks utterly functional, well-thought out, and looks like it'll last. It has some nice elements, i.e. rocker switches, to keep me piqued.
But I don't care too much about the interior when this car is concerned. (OK, I do care a bit that they did cheapen it with the Scion) That is not the point of this car. It's not trying hard to be a style icon. It's not supposed to attract those who care about attributes that are only skin deep. Personally, I don't need to be coddled at this price point. Hell, a nav is superfluous to me. To the people who this appeals to, the interior is not what will have me sold, there are other qualities that will have me amused. Granted, I've had zero seat time behind this machine, but I will defer anyone doubting this car's abilities to the numerous articles (by those who've had more experience than the vast majority of forum members here) that have been posted on this thread and the GT86 thread.
Why is it when enthusiasts have asked for something in particular, in this case, an honest-to-goodness RWD car unfettered with computerized doo-dads, that there's some backlash? I'm not expecting an all-out lovefest, but there's some backlash here and on various other outlets that I don't get. Especially, when it comes at the fact that there those who have actually had some seat time, and for all intensive purposes, the drive is great. I just find it odd.
EDIT: I figure I should elaborate before my mild ribbing leads to something....
Personally, to me, the interior is not the interior that ends all interiors. But it looks utterly functional, well-thought out, and looks like it'll last. It has some nice elements, i.e. rocker switches, to keep me piqued.
But I don't care too much about the interior when this car is concerned. (OK, I do care a bit that they did cheapen it with the Scion) That is not the point of this car. It's not trying hard to be a style icon. It's not supposed to attract those who care about attributes that are only skin deep. Personally, I don't need to be coddled at this price point. Hell, a nav is superfluous to me. To the people who this appeals to, the interior is not what will have me sold, there are other qualities that will have me amused. Granted, I've had zero seat time behind this machine, but I will defer anyone doubting this car's abilities to the numerous articles (by those who've had more experience than the vast majority of forum members here) that have been posted on this thread and the GT86 thread.
Why is it when enthusiasts have asked for something in particular, in this case, an honest-to-goodness RWD car unfettered with computerized doo-dads, that there's some backlash? I'm not expecting an all-out lovefest, but there's some backlash here and on various other outlets that I don't get. Especially, when it comes at the fact that there those who have actually had some seat time, and for all intensive purposes, the drive is great. I just find it odd.
Design is subjective.
Of course it should be cheaper; it's not likely to have driving dynamics compared favorably against cars like the Porsche Cayman or Mazda MX-5, and its platform will underpin many other cars (Seat Mii, Skoda Citigo, upcoming A3/Golf which will likely sell over 1M/yr).
As martinbo says, all of these cars are compromised in some areas. That's why you don't see an RCZ with handling dynamics compared favorably against an MX-5 or Cayman, or a Genesis Coupe with the fit & finish of an RCZ. All you can say as that you don't like the compromises that Toyota/Subaru made. You can't conclude that they're silly or stupid or pointless.
Oh, yes. The TT, Scirocco, and Genesis are all paragons of driving excellence.
Not really. That car has tons of hardy shiny plastics everywhere too, plus a sat-nav that looks like a clip-on afterthought. Its gauges don't look any better, and its shifter console looks like it's from the '70s (think BMW 2002).
Of course it should be cheaper; it's not likely to have driving dynamics compared favorably against cars like the Porsche Cayman or Mazda MX-5, and its platform will underpin many other cars (Seat Mii, Skoda Citigo, upcoming A3/Golf which will likely sell over 1M/yr).
As martinbo says, all of these cars are compromised in some areas. That's why you don't see an RCZ with handling dynamics compared favorably against an MX-5 or Cayman, or a Genesis Coupe with the fit & finish of an RCZ. All you can say as that you don't like the compromises that Toyota/Subaru made. You can't conclude that they're silly or stupid or pointless.
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Oh, and sorry to disappoint...
I hope you didn't print that thread Dr Pink Pants. Waste of paper.
On 10-28-2009*12:14 PM in this thread: http://www.germancarforum.com/subaru/31036-subaru-sports-coupe-design-sketches-leaked.html
I hope you didn't print that thread Dr Pink Pants. Waste of paper.
hoffmeister_fan
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^^^LOL. Part of me now kind of wished that weight be damned, and they'd put in an AWD system. Curious to see how this would have escalated....
I can see the discussions the engineers at FHI regarding the merits of RWD vs. AWD and how they may have been swayed had they seen your bet....
Engineer 1: So Toyoda-san wants to keep this car as light as possible. So no AWD.
Engineer 2: But Subaru's identity, especially in America and else where, is our AWD system.
Engineer 1: Well things change. Lightness is key in making this car world-class.
Engineer 2: But there's guy on an internet forum who made a wager with another guy who's fond of pink pants that he would lick the backside of a cat if we put AWD in this car.
[Engineer 1 reads said wager]
Engineer 1: Get me Toyoda-san on conference call immediately. And send him the link to the wager.
[10 minutes later]
Akio Toyoda (on an intercom): This changes everything...we need to implement AWD. Also, does he have to wear pink pants while licking the cat.?
Engineer 1: No, he just licks the cat.
Akio Toyoda: Fine, fine. As soon as that video is up, send the link to me immediately. (hangs up)
As you guys can tell, playwrighting is one of my strengths.
Now from the absurdity that is my mind to the car at hand....
It's funny, that all renderings from this rendering/spy-pic thread there's only one that remotely hints at what the BRZ will look like.
And really why even bother to do separate renderings for the Toyota version and the Subaru version? That's such a tease!
I can see the discussions the engineers at FHI regarding the merits of RWD vs. AWD and how they may have been swayed had they seen your bet....
Engineer 1: So Toyoda-san wants to keep this car as light as possible. So no AWD.
Engineer 2: But Subaru's identity, especially in America and else where, is our AWD system.
Engineer 1: Well things change. Lightness is key in making this car world-class.
Engineer 2: But there's guy on an internet forum who made a wager with another guy who's fond of pink pants that he would lick the backside of a cat if we put AWD in this car.
[Engineer 1 reads said wager]
Engineer 1: Get me Toyoda-san on conference call immediately. And send him the link to the wager.
[10 minutes later]
Akio Toyoda (on an intercom): This changes everything...we need to implement AWD. Also, does he have to wear pink pants while licking the cat.?
Engineer 1: No, he just licks the cat.
Akio Toyoda: Fine, fine. As soon as that video is up, send the link to me immediately. (hangs up)
As you guys can tell, playwrighting is one of my strengths.
Now from the absurdity that is my mind to the car at hand....
It's funny, that all renderings from this rendering/spy-pic thread there's only one that remotely hints at what the BRZ will look like.
And really why even bother to do separate renderings for the Toyota version and the Subaru version? That's such a tease!
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