M3/M4 Stop BMW M3-gone-soft petition

[EnI]

lol are you meaning to tell me that US customers know and want sporty cars better than europe...

No. I just said that manual gearbox is a synonym for "driver involvement" among some "hardcore" BMW customers in US.

And I agree: nothing can be as engaging as shifting with stick & clutch pedal. Not even semi-automatic boxes like SMG or DCT etc. Such boxes can perform better, and fit the car character better, but the real driver sticks with stick.

 

[LaArtist]

hey tycoon on a serious note.. do you really belive that all these journalists are talking crap..and there is NOTHING at all to there complaints..
wich seem to be about the same things..
man i want to belive that to.. ( no sarcasm.. for real)

 

[LaArtist]

No. I just said that manual gearbox is a synonym for "driver involvement" among some "hardcore" BMW customers in US.

And I agree: nothing can be as engaging as shifting with stick & clutch pedal. Not even semi-automatic boxes like SMG or DCT etc. Such boxes can perform better, and fit the car character better, but the real driver sticks with stick.

truth.. but you said it right there..fit the charectar..
it would be a bitch to have a manuall in a C63 with 600nm..
so it doesent fit..
as with the previous M3..ive driven both Manual and SMG..i felt SMG was waay more fun.. cause it was made for that raw ass charechter of the car..

yes sticks are the real deal.. but just not for all cars.. one must understand that

 

[RICHBOY]

How the h**l can automatic be more engaging than a manual???????

Manual gearbox alone makes M3 more engaging over the automatic ... Why do you think US customers requested manual version of M5? Because only the stick (+ clutch pedal) gives you the real engaging feeling - that the general perception among core customer base in US.

Yes, C63 is more engaging then previous C55, but vs new M3 ... wait till first real comparisons are out. There will be no doubt who is (still) The King.










I really have serious doubts about some journalists: are they really able to drive E92 M3 properly? Perhaps they haven't even reached the car's limits, and therefore the "tame" feeling.

Yeah your right, all hale the king RS4
Who's the young prince waiting in the wings? C63

 

[PanterroR]

hey tycoon on a serious note.. do you really belive that all these journalists are talking crap..and there is NOTHING at all to there complaints..
wich seem to be about the same things..
man i want to belive that to.. ( no sarcasm.. for real)

Man, that's crap to me because i expect them to look at those thing just like Eni:

Basically the "problem" is that the car does everything better than E46 M3 with much less effort. Duh! It has much better engine & much capable chassis.

That's reality and not what they say.

Sure, there must be something to complain about, nothing is perfect after all. But all of them so far sound like M3 lost it's most important qualities.

You can be the biggest MB fan in the world, but tell me, do you really think M would allow/do that?

Hardly.

 

[LaArtist]

nah i dont think they would..thats why i havent signed the petition for example..
but the thing is.. with every bad review i start to loose faith
as in some ppl just get more stubborn with each review..lol
i belive the reviewers for the moment man..they done driven it..
and eni..well he just likes bmw.. more or less..

 

[PanterroR]

You cannot feel the car in one day, it takes some time of course. That's why i don't care for them and that's why they get on my nerves with such stupid complaints. They've expected GTR feel in new M3 - W T F???

If only Mr. Stuck would provide his review/opinion, now that would be awesome! He knows BMWs like his own pocket and i'd take seriously every single word of his, bad or good, doesn't matter.

 

[LaArtist]

who is stucK?

and no they do not want GRT feel..they compare it to the old REGULAR m3..

if one cant get a feel in one day.. then most of all reviews should be pretty crap ..

 

[PanterroR]

Hans Joachim Stuck

Hans-Joachim Stuck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and no they do not want GRT feel..they compare it to the old REGULAR m3..

Well i say to them: put them together at the same test/conditions/track and other $h!t and then make conclusions!

if one cant get a feel in one day.. then most of all reviews should be pretty crap ..

I'm not interested in those short road tests we've seen so far...

 

[LaArtist]

lol dude is a BMW man.. anyways..he should be a good driver atleast

Most reviews you will see in the future..allthough more detailed and over several pages.. will not change the fact that the tester just had the car for 1 day..or maybe 2..

 

[PanterroR]

lol dude is a BMW man.. anyways..he should be a good driver atleast

Read more about him...

Most reviews you will see in the future..allthough more detailed and over several pages.. will not change the fact that the tester just had the car for 1 day..or maybe 2..

More in-depth analysis and several pages as you've said would be much better.

 

[LaArtist]

where can we read his verdict..does he work for some magazine?

yep waiting for those 2.. i hope they are better..
cause it will be painfull to see the bmw fans otherwise..
its allready a pretty sad situation

 

[PanterroR]

where can we read his verdict..does he work for some magazine?

Nowhere, he doesn't work for any mag if i'm not mistaken. He was testing BMW cars, but i don't know if it's still the case. He did test the 135i recently though...I'm sure that sooner or later he'll get his hands on one and i hope he'll say few words about it.

yep waiting for those 2.. i hope they are better..
cause it will be painfull to see the bmw fans otherwise..
its allready a pretty sad situation

Sad? Nope, not for me...

 

[LaArtist]

whoa.. in that case..he is not something i look forward to.. he works for bmw for godsake...

i know its not sad for you.. but generally.... check other forums than this one..
mayhem is the word i would use

 

[PanterroR]

whoa.. in that case..he is not something i look forward to.. he works for bmw for godsake...

Stop acting like a kid, man. He's a pro driver that drove cars you and me won't see irl... Doesn't matter that he works for BMW, he's the one to tell us the real difference between E46 and E92 M3...

i know its not sad for you.. but generally.... check other forums than this one..
mayhem is the word i would use

Couldn't care less for other forums, only GCF counts!

 

[EnI]

and no they do not want GRT feel..they compare it to the old REGULAR m3..

BMW should have brought E46 M3 there as well. For direct face-to-face comparison. The reviews would be much different.

I'm sure marketing guys regret that missed opportunity.

 

[LaArtist]

^it would be damn faster the new one..thats for sure..
but i guess thats not the point here..but as you say..would have been interesting..and very cocky.. here you go.. compare it to our own car.. as this is the only thing we see as competition..
man i should work for BMW market dep..

yeah okay..he is a pro.. lets see what he has to say..
i belive him as much as you would bevlie mikka hakkinen driving the C63

 

[PanterroR]

i belive him as much as you would bevlie mikka hakkinen driving the C63

Why not? If he was testing and driving the $h!t from both 55 and 63 of course i'd believe him! Absolutely! You think anyone could say better the difference between those 2 cars? Forget it!

 

[siko]

It's a let down for one reason, driver involvement. You can change your likes to cater to BMW's current philosophy, or except the current market trends, bottom line is driver involvement has been the BMW/M way for decades! When the RS4 came on the seen a few years ago and handed the M3 it's ass, it didn't matter to the bimmer crowd because the RS4 wasn't as engaging to drive as the M3. Well now the C63's more engaging then ever, the new M3 seem's to be watered down, and 80% of the M3 reviews have a negative under tone. It's not looking good for the icon!

Don't forget that it's the same spiel every generation... each successive generation has been less "hardcore or raw" and more refined. Hence why the CS package and the CSL were introduced (same parallel with 911 models, each generation they are more “tame” and “easier to drive”… is that a disappointment ?!? No, because we can always buy more "hardcore" versions)

80%... pretty much all say it's an awesome car with the only one "negative" aspect, it being less engaging to various degrees (depending on the reviews). Anyhow, I agree its seem less than perfect, but I think calling it a dissapointment is a little much.... that's all I'm saying.

 

[RICHBOY]

Don't forget that it's the same spiel every generation... each successive generation has been less "hardcore or raw" and more refined. Hence why the CS package and the CSL were introduced (same parallel with 911 models, each generation they are more “tame” and “easier to drive”… is that a disappointment ?!? No, because we can always buy more "hardcore" versions)

80%... pretty much all say it's an awesome car with the only one "negative" aspect, it being less engaging to various degrees (depending on the reviews). Anyhow, I agree its seem less than perfect, but I think calling it a dissapointment is a little much.... that's all I'm saying.

Point taken!