S4 vs. 335

[Deutsch]

I was reading about such a comparo on Bimmerfest, where most of everyone (for clear reason) sided w/ the 335, saying that it was a more involving drive, cheaper (by what? $5k-??), and has less weight. The Audi only recieved recognition for Quattro, which many say is the only real reason to take an Audi over a BMW (pure fallacy)/ That breif summary aside, what's your guy's take on the two??? One is obviously tipped to be more a performance car than the other, but I believe both offer pretty good bang for the buck (the BMW slightly more so in my book).

Funny I should think about it as I type this, but I've driven both cars, and from my recolection (from driving both the B6 & 7, the former being the one that I liked more, though the '07 is quite nice) AWD was the only defining characteristic of the S4 (thinking of B7 here, I drove the B6 "ages" ago). It's still a great car but there's major room for improvement, and from the looks of it, this is where the RS4 has filled in (hopefully the B8 version will re-write the books some way??). The 335i, IMO, is the better car, it has the S4 licked for handling, though the ride is much the same, and the power delivery (torque) feels much more immedeate (stems from weight).

 

[Yperion]

The world is moving ahead and A4 is right now at the end of it's lifetime. BMW 3 series is more up to date and the new engine is one of the best out there.
Now we are waiting for Audi's response and believe me when i tell you that new A4 will be the car to match or even beat BMW driving dynamics.

 

[Deutsch]

The world is moving ahead and A4 is right now at the end of it's lifetime. BMW 3 series is more up to date and the new engine is one of the best out there.
Now we are waiting for Audi's response and believe me when i tell you that new A4 will be the car to match or even beat BMW driving dynamics.

I'll be happy to see that happen Yannis, as it would be nice to see the 3er become "universally" vanquished by it's current closest rival. Audi is edging ever more close w/ every all new product in launches. The 3er is a great car, one of the best in my book, so that would be some feat for the B8 to accomplish such a challenge.

 

[siko]

.... Now we are waiting for Audi's response and believe me when i tell you that new A4 will be the car to match or even beat BMW driving dynamics.

Only if they put a rear-bias Quattro on all A4 could they match driving dynamics... no way if they keep the same 50/50 setup.

 

[Deutsch]

Only if they put a rear-bias Quattro on all A4 could they match driving dynamics... no way if they keep the same 50/50 setup.

It's wel known that from this point on all new Audi's (Haldex AWD based models thee exception) will have an assymetrical torque split w/ 60% of the power going to the rear while the remaining 40% goes to the front wheels. It seems to work quite well on the B7 RS4, though the tracibility of the feel in power shift seems to be quite vague.

 

[Yperion]

Only if they put a rear-bias Quattro on all A4 could they match driving dynamics... no way if they keep the same 50/50 setup.

There are two keys to driving dynamics:
1-Keeping the curb weight as low as possible
2-Weight distribution

The first one is difficult to achieve since quattro parts add to the weight of the vehicle but since Torsen C is more compact and light that Torsen B (which is now in use across the range minus S6,S8 , RS4 and Q7) the new generation A4 will be improved in that.

As for the distribution it will also be improved with the engine moving further to the rear in the engine bay. How much exactly i don't know.

When we say that Audi will match driving dynamics we don't mean that Audis will be transformed into BMWs but that understeer will be greatly reduced and the cars will feel lighter and more agile.

 

[Deutsch]

will be greatly reduced and the cars will feel lighter and more agile.

As a direct result of the engine moving further back over the front axle.

 

[EnI]

I hope Audi come close to BMW in driving dynamics - that will force BMW to produce even better cars and finally start to use new tech (eg. DCT).

But I have one reservation: Audi have a tendency to make their cars larger than direct rivals. Eg. A6 is bigger than 5er & E-class, Q7 is bigger than X5 & ML etc.

And size can hurt driving dynamics a lot. I'm sure 3er will be still more dynamic if new A4 turns out to be of Passat size.

Unless they will use extremely stiff full-aluminium body frame, and active suspension with active roll stabilization. Which I guess will not be the case.

 

[Yperion]

It's not easy to beat BMW in their own game but it can be done. Infiniti has done it with G35 and M45 (according to US magazines) and Audi has done it too with A8.

It's true that next A4 will be larger than current model, that will happen because most buyers care very much about interior space, but not as large as Passat. Audi will have to keep the weight as low as possible while making the chassis as rigid as possible. That will be posible with the combination of extended use of ultra strong steel and advanced welding techniques.

 

[Zafiro]

I wonder if the driving fun will be better than E90..

 

[EnI]

It's not easy to beat BMW in their own game but it can be done. Infiniti has done it with G35 and M45 (according to US magazines) and Audi has done it too with A8.

A8: true. A8 is handles much better then E65. While steering is till in BMW's domain. BMW engineers were furious over fact E65 lagging behind A8 in handling department - and still are. Even more since even MB W221 is better. But F01 will correct the mistake. Very much.

M45: yes, some US magazines put it ahead of 5er in driving dynamics department.

G35: better driving dynamics than E90??? I haven't seen article saying that. All they said G35 (306HP) has better perfornmance - since they tested it vs 330i with 255HP. We all know G35 will compete with 300HP 335i - which is available right now in US, replacing 330i.

 

[Yperion]

G35: better driving dynamics than E90??? I haven't seen article saying that. All they said G35 (306HP) has better perfornmance - since they tested it vs 330i with 255HP. We all know G35 will compete with 300HP 335i - which is available right now in US, replacing 330i.

Not E90. G35 won over E46 some years ago (according to US magazines at least).

 

[Imhotep Evil]

It's not just 335i vs. S4. With some proper tyres (not those crapy runflats) the 335i will probably leave both the E46 M3, C55 and S4 behind.

 

[Matt]

Well the S4 is probably a bit quicker than the 335 off the line however driving thrill would probably go to BMW. Audi has to figure out a way to put the engine behind the front axel. That means pushing their wheel base out further and moving the engine further back in the engine bay.

Oh yea, i dont think that any American magazine ever said that the M45 was the better drive and performance car...they just said for the price its worth it.

Just one of quite a few others:
http://www.germancarforum.com/showthread.php?t=283

 

[bmwrules]

Not E90. G35 won over E46 some years ago (according to US magazines at least).

I'm not worried about the G35. The all-new 2007 G35 sedan has already lost to the 2006 330i in Motor Trend despite a huge performance advantage which will be cancelled out by the 335 sedan.

 

[sunnyman12]

Not E90. G35 won over E46 some years ago (according to US magazines at least).

It beat a 325i....thats only because the they said the 325i was underpowered but still had better driving dynamics than the g35....o and " BMW edged out the Infiniti by two points in the Fun-To-Drive category, but the Infiniti had a 5 point advantage in the Price category" so the m45 still doesn't win in driving dynamics buddy

 

[Deutsch]

I hope Audi come close to BMW in driving dynamics - that will force BMW to produce even better cars and finally start to use new tech (eg. DCT).

But I have one reservation: Audi have a tendency to make their cars larger than direct rivals. Eg. A6 is bigger than 5er & E-class, Q7 is bigger than X5 & ML etc.

And size can hurt driving dynamics a lot. I'm sure 3er will be still more dynamic if new A4 turns out to be of Passat size.

Unless they will use extremely stiff full-aluminium body frame, and active suspension with active roll stabilization. Which I guess will not be the case.

It's possible that Audi could come close and possibly even topple BMW, but in all honesty (and in my heart of hearts) that's a long shot. I guess it's just the nature of Audi that makes me think this, car after car upon release after release, they edge closer but always end up flopping (though good flops). BMW has driving dynamics down to a science that's often duplicated but never replicated. Only the best of sports/super cars match and/or exceed the handling of BMW's.

In comparing BMW's to Audi's, put simply it goes like this; when I drove an A4 2.0T I had a pretty good feeling for how the body of the car would react to curves and during hard cornering, but other than that, all other sense were inert. The 3er on the other hand is almost inexplicable, everything is working simountaneously together, the steering full of info from the front wheels, the body of the car going with the curve/s instead of resisting. You don't find that kind of stuff in any other car comparable from other major luxury players but only sportscar manufactures or makes that make very good sportscars.