Phantom RR Phantom lifecycle?

[bmer]

What's the estimated lifecycle for the Phantom? Will it still get a facelift before it's replaced with a new model?

 

[Deleted member 25]

I think i have read once that it will carry on until 2012, so probably that the potential facelift will be very light.

 

[bmer]

If it receives a facelift, I hope they add LED-DRLs similar to the ones found in the Coupe & Drophead Coupe.

 

[///K]

I thought the phantom already went through minor changes on the bumper.

 

[ateekt]

Phantom is a timeless beauty! Let the legend live... Cars like Phantom are like good vines, regardless of their age they are highly valued!

 

[Monster]

Lifecycle is probably 10 years or more for cars like this.

 

[EnI]

Phantom got a LCI last year!

The changes were very subtle. Slightly revised bumpers & grille, and some slight tech-upgrade in the cabin, new standard 21" wheels etc.

That can indicate the lifecycle for Phantom is 10-12 years. Yet I do not have any offical info on that. Right now RR are still working on Ghost-based coupe & cabriolet. After that they will start to work on a new Phantom. So, it's coming sometimes between 2013 & 2015.

 

[bmer]

I thought the phantom already went through minor changes on the bumper.

Phantom got a LCI last year!

Sure but if it's still on the market for 3-5 years, another facelift could be a good idea. For example the Phantom's halogen-DRLs look awkward compared to the Coupe's/Drophead Coupe's LED-DRLs..

 

[klier]

Sure but if it's still on the market for 3-5 years, another facelift could be a good idea. For example the Phantom's halogen-DRLs look awkward compared to the Coupe's/Drophead Coupe's LED-DRLs..

Exactly that. And the v3.0 iDrive, the new V12 TT, the new 8 speed gearbox, etc. So in other words, a proper facelift. With that I see another 4 years or so without a problem..

 

[Centurion]

Niche most exceptionally expensive niche cars, the Phantom is not a profit making cash cow. The entire aluminum skelleton is custom and few components are shared with other cars, making the car very expensive to manufacture. And it doesn't help that the sales volumes are small. For that reason, the car might not break even until manufacturing year 8, and in the final 10-12th year finally turn a profit that can be used to develop the successor.

This explains the development of the Ghost which will play the role of bringing bread and butter to the table at RR Motors. Even Bentley, platform whoring like there is no tomorrow have a very small profit margin of roughly 3-5% if I remember correctly.

Most importantly, cars like the Mulsanne and Phantom are like an expensive sofa -- they can look good for over ten years.

 

[EnI]

RR Motorcars Ltd. are making profit.

But still the investment have not returned yet - since the investment was quite high: OK, the price for the brand was cheap but BMW had to build a new factory, establish new dealership network (since the existing factory & dealer network stayed with Bentley @ VAG).

BMW AG predicted the investment would start to return @ annual sales number of 1,000 units of RR cars. So, in the last years the investment has started to return slowly.

Regarding Phantom: sure it was costly to develop but not that much: BMW had the know-how, the expertize, the technology. Incl. the one for ASF.

Is Phantom profitable? Sure it is (not that the profit margin is extremely high - but in line with BMW expectations: meaning about 5-6%). Why? Since most of cars are heavily customized - pushing the price into the sky. Sure there is a base price as an info - but many cars are sold for twice that price. Are some even for a triple. Sure it's not a high profit margin.

So, yes the car development wasn't cheap, the manufacturing of it isn't eather. Nor are the materials used. But the price is so high & there is so much value added in the brand name & exclusivity (due customization).

But the Ghost will be much more a money maker for the RR. The goal is to make a profit margin at least 8% if not higher in the next years. If economic situation remains relatively stable.

 

[Mr Robert]

Again, the margins on RR cars must be rather astronomical.

 

[EnI]

Again, the margins on RR cars must be rather astronomical.

When it comes to the price-of-manufacturing vs selling price per car: then YES, they are.

But there are also other costs than just manufacturing ones. So ... in the end the margin is not that high.

 

[Mr Robert]

When it comes to the price-of-manufacturing vs selling price per car: then YES, they are.

But there are also other costs than just manufacturing ones. So ... in the end the margin is not that high.

But in this case, R&D will trinkle far down in the ranks and therefore these costs are not borne by RR alone. Otherwise, there would have been no trouble for BMW making any sort of spectacular car.

 

[EnI]

But in this case, R&D will trinkle far down in the ranks and therefore these costs are not borne by RR alone. Otherwise, there would have been no trouble for BMW making any sort of spectacular car.

Compared to Ghost the Phantom architecture is rather specific. And quite unique - while quite some Ghost solutions derives directly from 7er.

There are also quite huge marketing costs and other costs etc. not connected directly with R&D or manufacturing.

Btw, BMW are already making spectacular cars.

 

[Centurion]

Is Phantom profitable? Sure it is (not that the profit margin is extremely high - but in line with BMW expectations: meaning about 5-6%). Why? Since most of cars are heavily customized - pushing the price into the sky.

The customization is very labour intensive, and requires skilled expensive workers. So it all evens out at the end. This might explain why MB took the cautious but disastrous route of looking in the W140 and W220 parts bin for developing the MM. But I do believe that the addition of a coupe and cabrio version do improve the profitability of the Phantom. All three cars are not a too uncommon sight in central parts of London.

Regardless of that, the Phantom will stand well against the same, similar to how the Arnage did.

 

[Human]

And playing in the billionare's company/field, the are has to have's....

Before the private jet, yacht etc...comes the has - to - have RR. Phantom, Drophead Coupe or in this case Ghost. If you don't have at least one of them in the super rich crowd (well I still think they are plenty) you will be seen as inferior in the 'crowd'

 

[EnI]

Before the private jet, yacht etc...comes the has - to - have RR. Phantom, Drophead Coupe or in this case Ghost.

Actually, data for the whole 2010 orders, and all up to mid 2011 ones - till then the Ghost is sold out (data form late December 2009) show that about 85% of Ghost orders are coming from customers new to RR brand. So, not the Phantom owners - nor owners of eg. Silver Seraph.

There are also some people who are "upgrading" from Bentley to RR. No data whether they are Arnage or CFS or even more classic Bentley owners. Nor whether they are adding a new model to the line-up, or replacing the current cars.

While those 15% Ghost buyers are mostly adding a Ghost sedan to their Phantom cabrio or coupe, or some are true RR collectors: already having 3 or 4 RRs in the garage, and now adding a brand new model to the collection. The ones adding Ghost only to the already owned Phantom sedan are rare.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

Rumormill: Rolls-Royce Phantom to undergo major overhaul in 2016

Having been introduced in 2003, the Rolls-Royce Phantom has been on the market for seven years now. That's a pretty long life-cycle for a car these days. According to the ever-churning rumor mill, that's only the tip of the proverbial iceberg, as Rolls may be planning on keeping the Phantom the way it is for another six years or so.

According to the reports, the Phantom is set to receive a major overhaul in 2016. What that will entail is far from being known at this point. And considering Maybach may reportedly fall by the wayside, its only major competition is the Bentley Mulsanne, which is brand spankin' new.

Once the Phantom sedan is replaced, though, it would be reasonable to expect the Coupe and DHC convertible to follow suit. In the meantime, expect another few dozen special editions for the Persian Gulf crowd.

- Rumormill: Rolls-Royce Phantom to undergo major overhaul in 2016 — Autoblog

 

[Merc1]

This car has to have a long life, it has to pay down the development costs which are huge since it is a clean-sheet, from the ground up design. I'd expect a more comprehensive facelift in a few years, but yeah I can see them waiting until 2016 for a full redesign.

M