M3/M4 [Reviews] BMW M3 Saloon & M4 Coupe

[Rolf]

Yeah this car flies, very good times from C&D.

 

[klier]

For the first time black on white from BMW, M2 and M4 GTS.
Sadly no hardcore all out CSL, hopefully later after the facelift of the 4er

 

[Betty Swollocks]

For the first time black on white from BMW, M2 and M4 GTS.
Sadly no hardcore all out CSL, hopefully later after the facelift of the 4er

What do you mean "no hardcore all out CSL"? The E92 GTS was more hardcore than the E46 CSL.

 

[SCOTT27]

The GTS will be an amazing car. It is the epitome of Performance using lightweight technology and extraordinary innovation.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Then in 2016 there will be an M2 that will also continue this philosophy.
Its body is like the M235i Racing but not stuck on.
But the standard M2 will not be a disappointment either.

Of course there are other opportunities open for the M4.
But the new M3 with Competition Packet coming soon furthers our progress in light of new competition.

 

[Beemer B773ER]

... in light of new competition.

Such as?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Then in 2015 there will be an M2 that will also continue this philosophy.

That's wrong. It will be 2016.

 

[manuelf]

Such as?

Hmm... C63S?

 

[SCOTT27]

Hmm... C63S?

Yes the "Heavy" C63 S AMG.

 

[ACE]

The 510hp C63S costs less after discounts than the M3 in the UK even though the list price of the C63S is £7k higher (list prices C63S = £66k vs M3 DCT = £59k).

If BMW are going charge another £7k for an M3 comp pack that adds only 15hp like it does on the M5 then the M3 comp pack is looking relatively expensive.

 

[SCOTT27]

The 510hp C63S costs less after discounts than the M3 in the UK even though the list price of the C63S is £7k higher (list prices C63S = £66k vs M3 DCT = £59k).

If BMW are going charge another £7k for an M3 comp pack that adds only 15hp like it does on the M5 then the M3 comp pack is looking relatively expensive.

Are they discounting a new car like the C63 AG already in the UK?
I thought that was forbidden by the mother ship at the start of market introduction?

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Are they discounting a new car like the C63 AG already in the UK?
I thought that was forbidden by the mother ship at the start of market introduction?

No doubt huge discounts will be available on the M3 before long, if not already. That's what I'm waiting for anyway. I'll have to speak to my friend who sold me my M135i.

 

[klier]

What do you mean "no hardcore all out CSL"? The E92 GTS was more hardcore than the E46 CSL.

CSL is more special, imo. GTS will loose it's weight via lighter seats, lighter wheels (?), no airco/sat nav and other 'on the surface' stuff. It's CSL lite.

The 510hp C63S costs less after discounts than the M3 in the UK even though the list price of the C63S is £7k higher (list prices C63S = £66k vs M3 DCT = £59k).

C63 S is only 2K Euro more expensive than the M3 here in Holland. I would have thought the gap to be bigger, or the M3 somehow to be cheaper.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

CSL is more special, imo. GTS will loose it's weight via lighter seats, lighter wheels (?), no airco/sat nav and other 'on the surface' stuff. It's CSL lite.

Why are you now using the word "special"? That's not what you said. You said "all out hardcore CSL", and that's what I was responding to.

So, in terms of "hardcore", the GTS was a lot more race orientated and hardcore than the CSL, with a standard roll cage and only two seats. The GTS also had adjustable suspension and rear wing.


Now, if you want to talk about "more special", then the GTS was more special than the CSL also.

The E46 CSL was slightly more expensive than the standard E46 M3. The E92 GTS was nearly DOUBLE the price of the standard E92 M3.

Around 1,400 examples of the CSL were built compared with only 135 of the GTS.


No doubt the CSL remains a classic and is a great car, however.

 

[klier]

Well I guess you're right. I somehow always view the CSL as superior because it is like two seconds slower than the 'much more hardcore' (highly debatable, no matter the wing and roll cage), much more powerful and much newer GTS on the Ring. And it's much lighter too, so in the end more worthy of the CSL moniker.

In the end the GTS is the better car, but the progression over the CSL was just poor. With Porsche and the 997.1 GT3 vs 997.2 GT3 vs 991 GT3 there is a clear progression every time, and BMW has sort of been standing still a bit.

 

[manuelf]

Well I guess you're right. I somehow always view the CSL as superior because it is like two seconds slower than the 'much more hardcore' (highly debatable, no matter the wing and roll cage), much more powerful and much newer GTS on the Ring....

Here you see the "problem" of the Sport Auto Supertest... one time taken out of context builds up a myth
Yes - the CSL was insanely quick at the time the test was done. 7:50 Nordschleife and 1:13,5 on Hockenheimring was amazing back then... BUT:
There are a lot of experienced M3 and M3CSL drivers with "Nürburgring experience", who seriously question whether the tested CSL was "regular".
The first Michelin Cup Semislick was so extremely optimized for dry track performance, that it was nearly not-driveable in wet conditions. Back then at the time of the test of the CSL, SportAuto did Not test wet performance...
So while everything played to the CSL in the Supertest, it went exactly the other way in the Supertest of the GTS!
BMW decided to equip the GTS with the Pirelli Corsa System... Ask track aficionados, what they think about this tire. It is a much more allrounder compared to the first Michelin Cup, which is way more capable in terms of dry performance! More over the SportAuto did not adapt the setup of suspension to the Nordschleife at all, but used the inadequate HHR setup.
Bottom line: In the german M-Forum are owners of both (CSL and GTS) ... they admit that the GTS "destroys" the CSL on the track with comparable tires/setup.
So be careful not to overrate this one-off dream result of the CSL Supertest

 

[savage-It]

I hope this time the new GTS will have a more reasonable price . It could be so, an interesting car for all the lovers of the iconic E46 CSL

 

[nikola1984]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Mr Robert]

The CSL was up against cars like the 360 CS and GT3 RS and fared very well. Let's see what the GTS can do.

 

[Zafiro]

A purple BMW. I think I like it.

More: https://www.instagram.com/abudhabi_motors/

 

[Rainer271]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies