Punishable? At 417 km/h on the German autobahn

[fortuner]

Why he clearly found himself a lightly trafficked section of the autobahn, I believe it was a Sunday morning when trucks are banned, driving a vehicle which was specifically designed to achieve such speeds, nobody was killed, nobody was injured, the car did what its maker designed it too do safely, so why is this speed an issue? If he did it during the week on a crowded autobahn then through the book at him, but he didn't.

Lets agree to diagree i have seen a close friend die in high speed crash so yeah i know what can happen

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Lets agree to diagree i have seen a close friend die in high speed crash so yeah i know what can happen

Sorry to read that, my friend.

 

[hovabongZA]

If it was on the unrestricted stretch of the autobahn then I don’t see what the problem is.

 

[klier]

Public prosecutors may beg to differ. The presence of other motorists alone and a palpable risk of endangering others will play a large role.

They can beg all they want. It is of no use if they don't change their own f'ng laws.

I can drive as fast as I want on certain parts.

German manufacturers set themselves a speed limit of 250 km/h long time ago.

No one does though. Maybe VW.

Lets agree to diagree i have seen a close friend die in high speed crash so yeah i know what can happen

Very very sad. Same with the father of my best friend decades ago. But it is entirely besides the point. You can die in a car crash at 70 km/h no problem.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

No one does though. Maybe VW.

All normal, non M/AMG cars are limited to 250 km/h. Mine doesn't go any faster than that and so is every normal 7er.

 

[klier]

All normal, non M/AMG cars are limited to 250 km/h. Mine doesn't go any faster than that and so is every normal 7er.

I was talking about brands, not specific cars.

3/4 of the line-up doesn't even reach 250 km/h, including some S classes.

The ones that can go fast, usually do go fast. This whole 250km/h limit is goed voor de buhne

And in case of an accident there really is no difference between 250 km/h and 400 km/h, everyone involved will be equally dead.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

They can beg all they want. It is of no use if they don't change their own f'ng laws.

I can drive as fast as I want on certain parts.

Oh, feel free to do so. And just hope that a fellow motorist doesn't feel intimidated or coerced by your driving behaviour and file a legal claim against you for "Nötigung" (coercion). And it could stick in a court of law.

Autobahn-Raser muss ins Gefängnis

www.sueddeutsche.de

The article above, at least remotely related BUT with causality and consequences having been far more dire, is an example of how German courts may proceed. The case, I image, will surely be alluded to as a precedent of sorts in court hearings. I seem to recall that the M-B test driver was travelling at speeds in excess of 300 km/h on a speed unrestricted stretch of Autobahn in a C215 AMG 65 prototype.

Maybe @Mick Briesgau could chime in as a legal professional. He is far, far more competent than I am.

 

[Big Sam]

And in case of an accident there really is no difference between 250 km/h and 400 km/h, everyone involved will be equally dead.

There is a higher chance of an accident occuring in the first place if you're doing 400km/h compared to 250km/h, simply due to how far the car travels in a few seconds. A driver in lane two has next to no chance of seeing a car doing 400km/h coming up behind them, and the fast car driver has very little chance of doing anything to avoid the accident either.

I'm sure you've driven at speed on the autobahn, as I have in various cars over the years (I posted a video on here of me doing an indicated 318km/h in my R8), and it's scary how quickly you travel at 300km/h, never mind over 400.

I once had an AMG GT fly past me at an estimated 250km/h+ while I was in lane 1 doing 130km/h. A few seconds after I looked in my rear view mirror with nothing behind me, he came shooting past. Having been in the position of the AMG GT driver in the past, I was shocked at how little notice the regular drivers get. I've never driven above 150km/h since.

As I understand it, even though there are no speed limits on the autobahn, it still doesn't mean you can drive at 400km/h without consequences, because that then falls under the crime of putting others in danger.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Maybe @Mick Briesgau could chime in as a legal professional. He is far, far more competent than I am.

I remember that sad case of the MB testdriver and the lady in her Renault Twingo. Just a few random remarks;
- as always, it depends on the actual facts and situation;
- sense of responsibility is utmost important ;
- Quote ADAC: "If the track is free and dry, there's nothing wrong with 200 km/h, in heavy traffic or fog, 80 km/h can be too fast."

PS you're too kind @Oida, but my competence in legal issues is mostly limited to corporate- and tax law

 

[Mick Briesgau]

And in case of an accident there really is no difference between 250 km/h and 400 km/h, everyone involved will be equally dead.

True. Most severe accidents in access of 80 km/h will kill you, no matter what kind of 'tank' you're driving.

I was talking about brands, not specific cars.

Me too. It was an agreement within the German car industry, between the usual suspects.

goed voor de buhne

Heerlijk...

 

[Antti]

All normal, non M/AMG cars are limited to 250 km/h. Mine doesn't go any faster than that and so is every normal 7er.

That means nothing. If the manufacturers were serious about it, ALL of their models would be limited to 250 km/h, not just some. This probably was the case actually for some years in the late-eighties to mid-nineties or so. When the fastest BMW was the 850Ci and the fastest MB the 560SEC.

Out of interest, does anyone know which models were the first BMW’s and Audis and MB’s to break the 250 km/h agreed limit?

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Out of interest, does anyone know which models were the first BMW’s and Audis and MB’s to break the 250 km/h agreed limit?

No, but I know which was the first one to voluntary self-restraint: the BMW 750i of the E32 series was locked at 250 km/h.

PS I didn't say it meant something, because it was voluntary.
PSS Porsche never signed the agreement.

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

No, but I know which was the first one to voluntary self-restraint: the BMW 750i of the E32 series was locked at 250 km/h.

PS I didn't say it meant something, because it was voluntary.

I still remember reading this in 1987. They wrote that you need more than 300 m to stop from this speed.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

That means nothing. If the manufacturers were serious about it, ALL of their models would be limited to 250 km/h, not just some. This probably was the case actually for some years in the late-eighties to mid-nineties or so. When the fastest BMW was the 850Ci and the fastest MB the 560SEC.

Out of interest, does anyone know which models were the first BMW’s and Audis and MB’s to break the 250 km/h agreed limit?

The E32 7ers were the first German automobiles in which the "freiwillige Vmax Selbstbeschränkung auf 250 km/h" were implemented. Further manufacturers, save Porsche, quickly followed suit. The increasing understanding of vmax-limiting electronics led to the creation of a small industry that specialized in "defeating" the vmax-limiter, the process of doing so becoming increasingly less problematic while remaining lucrative. As we know, German manufacturers began to abandon the limitation as a standard exercise for all high-performance offerings.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

A small addition:
From a purely legal point of view, you can drive far more than 250 km/h on German autobahns - provided, of course, there is no speed limit and the road, weather and traffic conditions allow this.

However, if an accident occurs at high speeds, a court could award you partial responsibility. This is true even if you haven't made a mistake yourself. Anyone who clearly exceeds the recommended speed of 130 km/h on German autobahns minimizes the scope for avoiding a traffic accident. Several traffic judges have awarded speeding drivers partial responsibility for accidents through which they are not at fault.

 

[Matski]

What? Where is the hot take?

This bit...

They’re just envious that someone else can afford a Bugatti and live life to the max whilst they are miserable in their own lives working dead-end jobs in the civil service. Some people instinctively want to attack whoever is doing well and being happy because they can’t take it being such losers and miserable bastards themselves

.. and yet Antti thinks I'm the triggered one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Nothing in the vid was weird or unusual. The car didn't fly off so physics seem to work just fine too.

Physics gonna physic. 30% more collision energy than a fully loaded articulated lorry travelling at the speed limit, but covering more than double the distance of the German eyesight requirement for drivers, in literally the blink of an eye. Thinking that's dangerous does not require someone to have a chip on their shoulder about not having Chiron dollar.

Also, yeah it didn't crash. Most drink drivers never kill anyone. Doesn't make it safe.

 

[Antti]

This bit...



.. and yet Antti thinks I'm the triggered one ¯\_(ツ)_/¯



Physics gonna physic. 30% more collision energy than a fully loaded articulated lorry travelling at the speed limit, but covering more than double the distance of the German eyesight requirement for drivers, in literally the blink of an eye. Thinking that's dangerous does not require someone to have a chip on their shoulder about not having Chiron dollar.

Also, yeah it didn't crash. Most drink drivers never kill anyone. Doesn't make it safe.

Surprisingly often the true underlying motive for someone to get angry or annoyed at someone else is envy. The person might not even be aware that the real reason he finds someone annoying is that they feel envy towards them. People are very good at coming up with seemingly credible and even virtuous excuses for being annoyed such as “it is unsafe” or “it is morally wrong” when the reality is that they are just envious.

However, in this particular case Professor Dudenhöffer reveals, by accident, his real reason for being so upset about this 417 km/h drive. How? He says: "Do we want to allow multi-millionaires to have fun on public roads that can endanger human life?"

Ask yourself: why is the net worth of the driver in any way, shape, or form, relevant to this case? Was it not about driving too fast on the autobahn? Why is it relevant that the driver is a multi-millionaire? Does he mean that it would have been OK to drive 417 km/h if the driver was poor? Of course not. It is completely irrelevant for this case. But the fact that Professor Dudenhöffer brings up the driver’s wealth reveals that the real problem he has is that someone has lots of money and, I assume, he himself does not. Therefore it comes down to envy.

 

[Deleted member 57437]

Having had the opportunity to drive a then-new 1988 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2 Targa at full song (somewhere just north of 240 km/h) on a relatively empty Autobahn in close to optimal weather/sightline conditions, I can testify just how taxing this is on the minds' ability to concentrate. Years later, I had a similar experience with a then-new 2004 Porsche 997 Carrera 2 coupe. A far more modern automobile with a top end just south of 290 km/h. There too, the degree of concentration required was immense. I may add that I would never do something like this with another passenger in the car.

 

[Big Sam]

True. Most severe accidents in access of 80 km/h will kill you, no matter what kind of 'tank' you're driving.

As has already been pointed out, big man, it's not just about surviving an accident, but avoiding an accident in the place, and that is more likely the faster you are travelling. How can you expect anybody driving at normal speeds to see a Veyron doing 400km/h coming up behind them? How far do you think the Veyron will have travelled by the time the driver even sees what is unfolding in front of them, has time to react, apply the brakes, and then bring the car to a much lower speed or take evasive action?

 

[CrunchSlaughtered]

As has already been pointed out, big man, it's not just about surviving an accident, but avoiding an accident in the place, and that is more likely the faster you are travelling. How can you expect anybody driving at normal speeds to see a Veyron doing 400km/h coming up behind them? How far do you think the Veyron will have travelled by the time the driver even sees what is unfolding in front of them, has time to react, apply the brakes, and then bring the car to a much lower speed or take evasive action?

And there is another factor - fear. The reaction of people when they are scared is unpredictable. Trying to make a manouvre and realising the speed of the car in the mirror leads to otherwise avoidable accidents.