M5 PP-performance to offer stage 1 (ECU tuning) for the M5

[Zafiro]

Stage 1
620hp/750nm (3.499,- €)

Stage 2
Under development

NEU im Programm - BMW M5 (F10) 620PS und 750Nm

First one sold and going to Abu Dhabi (anyone surprised )

 

[Deckhook]

I wonder how high the figures will actually go for the S63tu, huge potential.

 

[Giannis]

I wonder how high the figures will actually go for the S63tu, huge potential.

I'd say that the case is quite the opposite. Not a big potential, due to the engine being VERY complex. Tuners don't really like that.

That's a personal opinion, and please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Deckhook]

I understand fully where you are coming from, I suppose I didn't quite think that statement through. I suppose another limiting factor will be the size of turbo that will fit between the vee and the potential heat .

 

[Mr Robert]

I think many of today's more complex engines will be a pain for tuners. Many could end up reverting to standalone engine management and different peripherals such as turbos.

 

[Sayyaaf]

Thank you

 

[klier]

^ You're looking at this aren't you

 

[FC123]

Relatively low gains compared to the remap potential of the old RS6, but then again 620 hp for a first product is pretty solid.

 

[Giannis]

I understand fully where you are coming from, I suppose I didn't quite think that statement through. I suppose another limiting factor will be the size of turbo that will fit between the vee and the potential heat .

There are almost a thousand variables that matter, when one speaks about turbos. From the size of the input and output shells, to the angle of the flaps inside them. There are single spool turbos, turbos with half their flaps with one angle, and half their flaps with different, turbos with flaps that have a variable angle, etc.

There are thousands of things to change, while keeping the size the same. Size isn't really an issue.

As far as heat and the position of the turbo is concerned. The engine sits lower than regular F10s, and this means that space is an issue, in every other area, apart from inside the V. At least that's what I think. About heat, well, that's really an issue, and it's an issue for BMW as well, which can be easily seen, due to the number and size of the intercoolers and air-water coolers

 

[mini_cooper4]

I'll wait for stage 2 This might work well with the heavy GC...

 

[Giannis]

Meaning an air filter, a mild ECU tune and a new exhaust?

 

[Deckhook]

There are almost a thousand variables that matter, when one speaks about turbos. From the size of the input and output shells, to the angle of the flaps inside them. There are single spool turbos, turbos with half their flaps with one angle, and half their flaps with different, turbos with flaps that have a variable angle, etc.

There are thousands of things to change, while keeping the size the same. Size isn't really an issue.

As far as heat and the position of the turbo is concerned. The engine sits lower than regular F10s, and this means that space is an issue, in every other area, apart from inside the V. At least that's what I think. About heat, well, that's really an issue, and it's an issue for BMW as well, which can be easily seen, due to the number and size of the intercoolers and air-water coolers

Turbos and their works are not my thing so I can only take your word as to what options are available to tuners but we are in agreement about heat being a potential problem. Question is a what state of tune and output figure will this problem finally arise?

 

[Monster]

Turbos and their works are not my thing so I can only take your word as to what options are available to tuners but we are in agreement about heat being a potential problem. Question is a what state of tune and output figure will this problem finally arise?

Depends on the materials of the components, each component has its own strength, pressure and temperature rating, it is up to the tuner to decide how far are they willing to push the engine and how much are they willing to compromise on the engine's durability, or are they going to replace stock components with more expensive custom parts.

 

[Deckhook]

True but there has to be a point were the gains slow to a crawl but the price starts to jump up at an alarming rate, that's where I am meaning. Do you as an engineer think this point is at 750, 800, 850 or 900hp?

 

[Monster]

True but there has to be a point were the gains slow to a crawl but the price starts to jump up at an alarming rate, that's where I am meaning. Do you as an engineer think this point is at 750, 800, 850 or 900hp?

Sorry without knowing the absolute specifics of this engine, I cannot give an exact estimate, however I know when engineers are designing parts, they generally have a minimal factor of safety of 1.2, meaning the components are designed to withstand 1.2 times the designed load before failure. This is done for obvious safety reason as well as the durability reason. I am not saying people can simply multiply whatever power figure by 1.2 and get the answer.

 

[KEMA]

Shall be very interesting to follow the 'tuning wars' on the new M5 4.4 TT and Merc's 5.5 TT. Renntech has already posted very impressive gains on their CLS63 stage 1 tune: 580 WHP / 680 crank HP.

RENNtech Adds 100 WHP to CLS63 AMG | The Smoking Tire

Ken

 

[Deckhook]

This 1.2 figure has me confused, what exactly is it referring to? The reason I ask is I was told be someone who should know that whilst testing there were examples of the RS6 running up to 900hp during component reliability testing, clearly this is well outside your 1.2 figure and I know that certain parts would have needed to have been changed from stock but obviously there had to have been items that were stock, possible gearbox/drivetrain and block etc.

 

[Monster]

This 1.2 figure has me confused, what exactly is it referring to?

Where is the confusion?

when engineers are designing parts, they generally have a minimal factor of safety of 1.2, meaning the components are designed to withstand 1.2 times the designed load before failure.

The reason I ask is I was told be someone who should know that whilst testing there were examples of the RS6 running up to 900hp during component reliability testing, clearly this is well outside your 1.2 figure and I know that certain parts would have needed to have been changed from stock but obviously there had to have been items that were stock, possible gearbox/drivetrain and block etc.

How long did that engine+drive train lasted when the car was running at 900hp? The life expectancy of these parts will be significantly reduced. What exactly is outside my 1.2 figure? I have already said you can't simply multiply the stock power figure by the factor of safety to get an estimate of the max power/torque the engine can withstand.

 

[FC123]

I know several RS6's running +700 hp and app. 1000 NM, and I now several RS6's running +700 hp and app. 1000 NM running their second transmission.

 

[Deckhook]

^ one of the reasons why I'm not a huge fan of tuning though in the case of those RS6 it's not the power that's took the huge jump but the torque from 650Nm to 1000Nm, that's a 54% increase.