Peformance Brand For Lexus

[Bruce]

I don't think cars like the LS, or S class for that matter should be made into performance cars. I'm not saying that I don't like them though, I love the S65, wouldn't buy one though, would prefer the S600. Another example is the Maybach 57 S. Now can you imagine BMW making an M version of the Phantom, it just wouldn't happen. These cars are for luxury, and the person sitting in the back is what matters, not the person behind the wheel. I think making performance versions of these cars ruins their ride, which makes them useless for passengers. I say, if you have enough money to buy a car like this, say some money, and buy one with a smaller engine, and use that money to buy a proper performance car.

That's an interesting way of looking at it and I can't say I disagree. I respect your opinion, thanks for answering my question.

From what I read it would use the V8 engine from the LS 600hL, but not the hybrid. Maybe I'm mistaken.

I guess we'll find out soon enough

 

[Giannis]

I don't think cars like the LS, or S class for that matter should be made into performance cars. I'm not saying that I don't like them though, I love the S65, wouldn't buy one though, would prefer the S600. Another example is the Maybach 57 S. Now can you imagine BMW making an M version of the Phantom, it just wouldn't happen. These cars are for luxury, and the person sitting in the back is what matters, not the person behind the wheel. I think making performance versions of these cars ruins their ride, which makes them useless for passengers. I say, if you have enough money to buy a car like this, say some money, and buy one with a smaller engine, and use that money to buy a proper performance car.

BMW is a company whether we like it or not. Their target is to make money which comes through making and selling cars. If people want a certain (kind of) car, this means there are possible buyers for this which means money for BMW or MB or anyone else. So they will make it!

Now, there are some exceptions. If a car maker is trying or has a certain philosophy and he doesn't want to change it then we are not gonna see such a car. I recall that mr Richter said once that a 7er is against the M philosophy since they can't make it lightweight. So no M7!

I hope you get my point. Money is money. If people want an S65 then here it is!

 

[wltsm]

BMW is a company whether we like it or not. Their target is to make money which comes through making and selling cars. If people want a certain (kind of) car, this means there are possible buyers for this which means money for BMW or MB or anyone else. So they will make it!

Now, there are some exceptions. If a car maker is trying or has a certain philosophy and he doesn't want to change it then we are not gonna see such a car. I recall that mr Richter said once that a 7er is against the M philosophy since they can't make it lightweight. So no M7!

I hope you get my point. Money is money. If people want an S65 then here it is!

So what you're saying is most companies, apart from M make cars for profit. I get that completely, the S65 is there as a flagship car to get people into S350's, and even A160's.

The only thing is I don't understand why you'd want an S class with more than 600bhp, with sports suspension when it weights over 2 tonnes. You are trying to defy physics, which just won't work. The way I see it, it's fine to put loads of power into an S class, just don't change the suspension too much to try and make it corner well, because then you're compromising the main purpose of the car, to carry passengers. Active roll bars are fine, just don't stiffen the suspension all the time, as it is in the S65. The S600 is a much better car in that respect, I think. Personally, if you want a 'sporty' 4 door saloon, either get an RS4 kind of car, or M5 for a slightly larger car because these are lighter cars, which means they can at least attempt to handle. Also I don't see these cars in the same way as S class type cars, they main purpose isn't just to transport passengers, it's to give their drivers fun as well, which isn't really possible in cars weight much over 2 tonnes. This is something which is bad about the Bentley Flying Spur, an ultra luxury car, which should have a perfect ride and yet, it's too firm due to Bentley wanting to make the faster saloon car that can cruse at 205mph, now how many people want to go that fast, ruins the car for it's primary purpose, to transport people.

Cars that are good in this case, are ones like the A8 W12 and S600, cars which have a load of power, and are very fast, but are still very comfortable. They may not be able to handle like the S65, but 95% of the time, they provide good enough handleing, and are still very fast and comfortable!

I hope I'm getting my point across.

 

[Mr. M]

So what you're saying is most companies, apart from M make cars for profit. I get that completely, the S65 is there as a flagship car to get people into S350's, and even A160's.

The only thing is I don't understand why you'd want an S class with more than 600bhp, with sports suspension when it weights over 2 tonnes. You are trying to defy physics, which just won't work. The way I see it, it's fine to put loads of power into an S class, just don't change the suspension too much to try and make it corner well, because then you're compromising the main purpose of the car, to carry passengers. Active roll bars are fine, just don't stiffen the suspension all the time, as it is in the S65. The S600 is a much better car in that respect, I think. Personally, if you want a 'sporty' 4 door saloon, either get an RS4 kind of car, or M5 for a slightly larger car because these are lighter cars, which means they can at least attempt to handle. Also I don't see these cars in the same way as S class type cars, they main purpose isn't just to transport passengers, it's to give their drivers fun as well, which isn't really possible in cars weight much over 2 tonnes. This is something which is bad about the Bentley Flying Spur, an ultra luxury car, which should have a perfect ride and yet, it's too firm due to Bentley wanting to make the faster saloon car that can cruse at 205mph, now how many people want to go that fast, ruins the car for it's primary purpose, to transport people.

Cars that are good in this case, are ones like the A8 W12 and S600, cars which have a load of power, and are very fast, but are still very comfortable. They may not be able to handle like the S65, but 95% of the time, they provide good enough handleing, and are still very fast and comfortable!

I hope I'm getting my point across.

Lets be honest here. People buy the S65 for bragging rights.

 

[Centurion]

People buy the S65 for the same reason they buy a CGT or Enzo. They want speed and lots of it.

 

[Giannis]

The only thing is I don't understand why you'd want an S class with more than 600bhp, with sports suspension when it weights over 2 tonnes. You are trying to defy physics, which just won't work. The way I see it, it's fine to put loads of power into an S class, just don't change the suspension too much to try and make it corner well, because then you're compromising the main purpose of the car, to carry passengers. Active roll bars are fine, just don't stiffen the suspension all the time, as it is in the S65. The S600 is a much better car in that respect, I think. Personally, if you want a 'sporty' 4 door saloon, either get an RS4 kind of car, or M5 for a slightly larger car because these are lighter cars, which means they can at least attempt to handle. Also I don't see these cars in the same way as S class type cars, they main purpose isn't just to transport passengers, it's to give their drivers fun as well, which isn't really possible in cars weight much over 2 tonnes. This is something which is bad about the Bentley Flying Spur, an ultra luxury car, which should have a perfect ride and yet, it's too firm due to Bentley wanting to make the faster saloon car that can cruse at 205mph, now how many people want to go that fast, ruins the car for it's primary purpose, to transport people.

Cars that are good in this case, are ones like the A8 W12 and S600, cars which have a load of power, and are very fast, but are still very comfortable. They may not be able to handle like the S65, but 95% of the time, they provide good enough handleing, and are still very fast and comfortable!

I hope I'm getting my point across.

I get your point Will, and i wouldn't buy an S65 over a S600 (with AMG bodykit)! I just mean that since there are people who want such a car, then i see no reason why MB shouldn't make that car.

Why somebody would want a luxury car with >600hp is something else, another part of the story which has little to do with "should MB make the S65 or not". If someone wants an S65 or any other luxury car with tons of power then i don't care. But if i was MB i would see that this means money to me. So i would make that car.

You get what i mean? I don't care why people would want such a car, but i reckon that this means sales/money for MB.

 

[RICHBOY]

Good going Lexus, why should the Germans be the only ones with performance brands!

 

[Mr. M]

People buy the S65 for the same reason they buy a CGT or Enzo. They want speed and lots of it.

Not really. The S600 already offers that. The S65 is just another level higher than the S600 with more exclusivity and rarity that makes it special for buyers. Don't think the extra power in the S65 is a primary reason for their purchase.

 

[cawimmer430]

Not really. The S600 already offers that. The S65 is just another level higher than the S600 with more exclusivity and rarity that makes it special for buyers. Don't think the extra power in the S65 is a primary reason for their purchase.

People also buy them for bragging rights, feel-good-factor and also because they want an "S-Class with more power and better handling."

However, I think the heavy V12 in the S600 and S65 AMG actually worsens handling over an S550 and S63 AMG.

 

[Zafiro]

People also buy them for bragging rights, feel-good-factor and also because they want an "S-Class with more power and better handling."

However, I think the heavy V12 in the S600 and S65 AMG actually worsens handling over an S550 and S63 AMG.

no, they buy a S65 becuase the CAN

 

[Choleric]

no, they buy a S65 becuase the CAN

and to make up for certain deficiencies elsewhere...

 

[wltsm]

and to make up for certain deficiencies elsewhere...

I think that's the main reason actually!

 

[cawimmer430]

no, they buy a S65 becuase the CAN

That too.

 

[Bruce]

Just wondering: Has anybody seen any new pictures?

 

[cawimmer430]

Just wondering: Has anybody seen any new pictures?

Of the LS? Nope.

 

[Bruce]

Of the LS? Nope.

Of the IS-F

Apparently it is to be released at Detroit

 

[cawimmer430]

Of the IS-F

Apparently it is to be released at Detroit

Lexus is being very secretive about it. I'm sure spy photographers sneaking into the Lexus camp to get some pics will be shot on sight.

 

[Monster]

Here you go, the front of the IS-F completely uncovered, the photo is very dodgy but it looks real enough.

 

[Zafiro]

Locking thread, continue here

http://germancarforum.com/showthread.php?t=9709