8 Series OPINION: The new BMW 8 Series - Is it "Special" Enough?

[sako97]

Wow, first time in a long time that a spin-off thread is very enlightening. Realistic viewpoints lead to constructive discussions.

 

[KiwiRob]

What about the Lexus? I can see some even cross shopping the 8 with AMG GT.

The Lexus looks far more expensive than it is and it has an interior which is quite delightful, it looks and feels special.

 

[bmwblog]

The Lexus looks far more expensive than it is and it has an interior which is quite delightful, it looks and feels special.

Here is our Lexus review

TEST DRIVE: 2018 Lexus LC500 -- Japan's 8 Series Rival?

 

[donkeykong]

The Lexus looks far more expensive than it is and it has an interior which is quite delightful, it looks and feels special.

I can't disagree with that opinion.

 

[sako97]

I concur, the Lexus LC500 is a fantastic automobile, and is a bigger bargain than the M850i. Special looking interior too, only crippled by Lexus' horrible enform infotainment.

Here is our Lexus review

TEST DRIVE: 2018 Lexus LC500 -- Japan's 8 Series Rival?

Nice review.

There's been a slight issue with links not working as of late.

 

[Rolf]

I like the Lexus LC500, it's a very stylish out of this world looking car, quite different to anything in this class or price range. In my opinion it looks even more expensive and unique than the M850i with a stylish hand crafted looking interior and much better value for money. A LC500 Sport + model costs £85500 and has 4ws, carbon fiber roof and door frames, limited slip diff, variable adjustable dampers and Alcatara seats with full 10.3inch SatNav as standard equipment. Ok it hasnt got the performance of the BMW but as a package it is a very well specced and attractive car.

And it has an awesome exhaust note

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[LaArtist]

Let me float a theory here and let’s see if it sinks or swims.

Disclaimer this is a huuuge generalization:

Bmw cars are for juvenile minds, ie they attract young people that don’t have the means to buy something north of 100k, and by the time they get that money they grow out their bmw needs. And stars wanting something more grown up that suits the image they want to portray at 40-50 years of age.
And also by then they realize what it takes to have 100k to spend on a car so they don’t want to f#ck it all off on something that has a second hand value of a shoe.

So if that theory above floats, bmw can’t really make anything above 100k that is special enough even when they try.
This is a decent attempt,
The z8 in my book was an excellent attempt, but somehow maybe due to the theory above it all fails.

So basically an image problem, or not even a problem, as their image helps
them on the other end of the market selling like hot cakes. I rather sell 5million 3 series at 30-40k than 150000 8ers at 150k.

Ps
I know how they can make it above 100k, make something that is amazing value for money that pounches so far above its class that one have to pay
Attention to it.

Eg a Ferrari/Porsche beating super car with 800hp light weight and a price around 150.
Or a totally electric car like the coming taycan with range of 800km and 600hp and sell it for 100k.
Shock the world !

But we all know bmw plays it safe

 

[Matski]

My two cents...

Looking solely at BMW's past and present offerings, it is difficult to make a case for the 8-er as being special enough to warrant having that designation. Cars like the 850CSi, Z8 and i8 partially define what the flagship (highest numbered) car need to be... unique.... at least to quite a degree.

The i8 is unique in nearly every sense.. unique powertrain and body, with styling unlike anything else (well, perhaps the i3)
The Z8 was a hand built unique aluminium framed roadster, with an M5 engine, and styled unlike any other contemporary BMW.
The old E31 was unique in the sense that it didn't utilise another models underpinnings in the same way the 6-er had, and it had an M fettled V12 as an option... and it's styling mimicked BMW's previous super car more than any other model...
Even the M1, design and development cock up though it was, was still a new platform from the ground up. Though, the M88 engine did, in part, find it's way into the 5, 6 and 7 series.

So where does that leave the new 8? It's platform is CLAR, like most of the rest of the line-up, it's engines are/will be found in most other cars, and it's styling is seen reflected across a number of new models... it's (apparently) not getting a V12. Had any of those things been done distinctly different, I'd have no problem regarding the 8-er as being "special".

At the end of the day, people will assign a value to something they see as a preference... and manufacturers want you to pay more for your preference than it's worth. Taking comments in this/these threads at face value it seems BMW aren't very good at that compared to other premium brands... if it were my money going to a dealer, I think I'd be pretty happy about that personally.

 

[chonkoa]

Let me float a theory here and let’s see if it sinks or swims.

Disclaimer this is a huuuge generalization:

Bmw cars are for juvenile minds, ie they attract young people that don’t have the means to buy something north of 100k, and by the time they get that money they grow out their bmw needs. And stars wanting something more grown up that suits the...

Not sure I agree with you.
I agree playing it safe is the modus operandi, and I think anything into the six figures does require some elements of boldness.
Hilarious nonetheless.

 

[LaArtist]

Not sure I agree with you.
I agree playing it safe is the modus operandi, and I think anything into the six figures does require some elements of boldness.
Hilarious nonetheless.

Hahahha damn man I was trying to be serious.

 

[mdartisian]

I think the 8 series is attractive, but I also get why it's not perceived as being special. I don't think the exterior is the problem, although I do think BMW should've kept chrome rings around the kidney grill thin like the concept. It's a small thing, but to me, it's a major design flaw on an upper end BMW. The VFL, 8er, and Gran Lusso concepts all have thin chrome rings, but production BMW's don't for some reason. Regardless, the exterior is not the problem. It's the interior.

This interior design is lost in translation. It looks like BMW used Aston Martin and the 1st gen 8 series as inspiration, but I don't think either of those come to mind from casual observation. It's not bad looking, but it's not fitting for a dream car. I think an important question would be, if BMW came out with the next gen 6 series and then came out with this, would this 8 series be redundant?

Harold Kruger had this to say -
“The BMW 8 Series Coupe will build on our tradition of luxurious sports coupes and add a genuine dream car to our lineup – a slice of pure automotive fascination,” said Krüger. “The 8 Series Coupe will underpin our claim to leadership in the luxury segment. I can tell you today that this will be a true luxury sports coupe.”

I don't think this 8 series is what he's talking about, I think he's talking about "The 8." That may be what's got people underwhelmed, the 8 series ain't "The 8."

 

[rollo]

Interesting that the Lexus LC500 is getting a little love here. I will reserve judgement on the 8 until I see it in the metal and read more about how engaging it is to drive. The high price will invite cross-shopping in my view with cars in different classes like the mighty 911. Tough competition indeed.

 

[braaf]

None of those brands you mentioned outside of BMW have had trouble selling cars in meaningful amounts over $100k. When you're the new kid on the block, especially at that price range, you have to bring something compelling to the table in order for people to consider anything other than the stalwarts. Some people aren't enamored by the styling (me) and...

Well alot of people here seem to think that the 8 is a rebadged 6 series and BMW sold alot of those. So no problem here regardless of the price.

 

[braaf]

The car isn't visually exciting, it's just a big coupe with a BMW badge, an 850iXDrive is €180,000 in Norway, if I'm going to spend that much on a car I want people to know I spent €180,000. That's where I believe it's main problem lies, it might be a brilliant car but it's no pinup, there no visual wow factor, a Lexus LC looks more expensive.[/QUO...

Someone else might see it differently.

 

[Robbie]

Good thread Martin.

I like the M850i, it's probably my favourite non-X BMW at the moment, because it is nice looking and has impressive performance for a non-M. I do think it is fishing in a segment that doesn't come easily to BMW. I kind of agree with LaArtist, in that this is getting expensive for a BMW, and we know that historically the brand doesn't have the stretch that Mercedes has at that level.

I must point out though, the previous 8 series (E31) was a commercial failure, I remember well at the time they simply didn't sell. Even though the R129 SL was launched before it, the Merc was far more successful, had better performance (in 500SL form when compared to the 850i) and had better looks.

It seems people have forgotten that. I know that some might say the 8 competed with the SEC (C126) but as the 8 and the SL were so closely launched together, they were always compared.

I think with this 8, they really have taken the gap between the 911 and the S560 coupe - quite well I think.

 

[bmwblog]

I concur, the Lexus LC500 is a fantastic automobile, and is a bigger bargain than the M850i. Special looking interior too, only crippled by Lexus' horrible enform infotainment.



Nice review.

There's been a slight issue with links not working as of late.

Oops, sorry. It's on the main page.

 

[martinbo]

Porsche Panamera? The E-Hybrid is £20,000 LESS than the M850i xDrive. OK, it's not a V8 and it's four-doors, but I think it's good value for money next to the M850i.

The Panamera GTS starts at £105,000, but has the V8. Options will take it north of £110,000 pretty quickly though.


For me, it's not necessarily about cross-shopping similar cars. It's about what kind of experience does "X" amount of money get me. In 2011, I cross-shopped a new E92 M3 (list price roughly £50,000) with a new R8 V8 (list price roughly £85,000) and a new R8 V10 (list price roughly £100,000). I was close to getting the M3, not because I think it would offer me the same experience as the R8 V10, but that for half the price, it would get quite close. The R8 V8 didn't get a look in.

You mention the AMG E 53. You're right, it's not as special as the M850i, but it lists at £64,000. Is the M850i really worth £35-40,000 MORE than the AMG E 53?!! I don't think it is. The M5 lists at £89,000, and that's a 600hp, proper M car.

I think The M850i xDrive should be priced around £80,000, and I think pretty quickly the market will price it as such also.

I don't think that the Panamera - as nice looking as this second generation may be - is dramatic enough, looks wise, to be appropriately compared with a classic 2 door GT. And that's really what I'm on about - a specific theme, an evocative staple of BMW's: the large, traditional GT.

As for the argument of the E53 and price - you're well aware of the concept of diminishing returns when it comes to car pricing as you just argued the same case in your personal E92 vs R8 analogy. I honestly don't have a thing against the E53 AMG coupé but, side by side? The M850i will look leagues more exclusive.

 

[KiwiRob]

Well alot of people here seem to think that the 8 is a rebadged 6 series and BMW sold alot of those. So no problem here regardless of the price.

I though the generally accepted understanding on this forum was that the last 6er was a bit of a sales flop?

 

[AndreB]

If the 8er won't sell well is good for us, we will buy it at the correct price. I'd pay no more than 90k euro for a slightly used M850i. No way I'm gonna spend 140k on a car that's neither a sports or luxury car.

It's a special BMW but not a special car, no hybrid stuff or fancy suspension. Hopefully, the M8 will be super fast to save its little brothers.

 

[martinbo]

Good thread Martin.

I like the M850i, it's probably my favourite non-X BMW at the moment, because it is nice looking and has impressive performance for a non-M. I do think it is fishing in a segment that doesn't come easily to BMW. I kind of agree with LaArtist, in that this is getting expensive for a BMW, and we know that historically the brand doesn'...

It's an interesting point - this concept of a price "glass ceiling" north of circa €100-110K which supposedly is a stretch too far for spending on a BMW for all but the most ardent of supporters. Seemingly it's fine to a point and then people say "nice car but I wouldn't spend that kind of money on a BMW". So, there may just be some subjective truth to the matter... Time will tell if BMW has sufficient brand cachet to be able to command near-list price for the 8 Series.

Interestingly too, at around €100K converted to ZAR the M850i - at 2 bar - will not be very much more expensive than the LC500 being rightfully discussed here and yet the BMW features way more power, far broader dynamic range in all weather conditions and an arguably less polarising design. I definitely think I'd opt for the M850i over the LC500 given the near same pricing. Speaking of that LC500, I'm glad it's getting a mention or two here as I do feel it's as close as a competitor can be in the sense of the 2+2 Grand Tourer theme. It's a big favourite of mine on the roads and, visually, in the tin, it's far more of an event than a base Carrera or AMG GT for me. Would I buy one over a 911 GTS? Good Lord, no. Still it's a machine worthy of praise and its reliability will be unreproachable. Did you know that Toyota Gazoo Racing takes that V8 and unopened fits it to the Dakar Hilux with a restrictor? An unbelievable engine!