Senna [Official] McLaren Senna (P15)

[Cashmere]

The general consensus on the Senna seems to be that it is an incredible track car and fantastic on paper but lacking in emotion.

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[tristatez28lt1]

As do almost all McLaren. It's the reason why Ferrari is still flourishing.

 

[manuelf]

As do almost all McLaren. It's the reason why Ferrari is still flourishing.

I have to admit: I've never driven an 488GTB and no 720S. Especially not head2head...
So can you for instance explain to me, what is more emotional with an 488 than a 720S?
I have the vague feeling it is something illusional happening in the mind of people... thinking about the history and cachet of the cavallo rampante ... not anything substantial, which can be thouroughly explained... ? Ah yes, sure, it is as always if you want to stay vague: Its the steering FEEL, stupid!

 

[tristatez28lt1]

I have to admit: I've never driven an 488GTB and no 720S. Especially not head2head...
So can you for instance explain to me, what is more emotional with an 488 than a 720S?
I have the vague feeling it is something illusional happening in the mind of people... thinking about the history and cachet of the cavallo rampante ... not anything substantial, which can be thouroughly explained... ? Ah yes, sure, it is as always if you want to stay vague: Its the steering FEEL, stupid!

Now, here is my point of view: I have only driven the 488, not the 720s. However, I know many people that have told me this and they are owners of both brands.

The McLaren is a weapon, insanely technical, great piece of engineering and sets lap record after lap record. However, when you drive the car regularly, and let's face it, neither of us is a professional race car driver on a track, the car doesn't make you fall in love. You fall in love with beauty/design first then comes the rest. Perfection, what McLaren is to me, can be boring. I would say it is similar to the Nissan GT-R situation a while ago. The GT-R was not emotional. Customers bought the car for its technical capability and performance numbers, not to enjoy it as a piece of design art where, for example, the sound makes you fall in love. Numbers in the end matter only so much. If you want a car that goes fast in terms of numbers, you might as well ride an escalator aka a Tesla. But if you want something that makes you emotional, passionate, fall in love with the driving experience you get an old 964 with a manual take 7 seconds to 60 mph but overall be more involved, happier, and more emotional about the car. Even though it is much much less objectively in terms of sheer numbers.

Another example for me are mechanical watches: you buy an Apple watch because you need to get something done, you buy a mechanical watch to enjoy it.

Again, this is my point of view and a generalization of what I see in the industry.

 

[manuelf]

@tristatez28lt1: Don't want to offend you... but you repeat the vague statements I did critizise...
"The McL is technical perfection ... no soul .... and the Ferrari has lots of".
Where? What? Sound? Really? Both have FI V8. Does the 488 sound that much better? Looks? The 720s looks emotional... too. So can you give me a list of bullet points what exactly makes the 488 more emotional? Or is it witchcraft and nobody can exactly name it?

 

[tristatez28lt1]

@tristatez28lt1: Don't want to offend you... but you repeat the vague statements I did critizise...
"The McL is technical perfection ... no soul .... and the Ferrari has lots of".
Where? What? Sound? Really? Both have FI V8. Does the 488 sound that much better? Looks? The 720s looks emotional... too. So can you give me a list of bullet points what exactly makes the 488 more emotional? Or is it witchcraft and nobody can exactly name it?

No offense taken. Yes, it is witch craft. That’s why it’s not possible to rationally list things that the 488 does in a more emotional way. It is something intangible difficult to describe. Think about why a 964 “feels” emotional: It’s difficult to describe. It’s the small things: the way the key turns when you start the car. The way the car starts with a rough cold start and possible a misfire. The memories you have with the car. The way the car “speaks” to you.

It’s about the brand, about what you feel in the car. When customers drive Ferrari, many think back 20 years and feel they’re a part of Schumacher team. It’s about history, values, authenticity. Everything that you connect with a brand. McLaren as a brand is not that strong and their focus is different: it is perfection. A company is only the structure, the frame, it’s really made up by people. Dennis was a perfectionist. Good for F1, a bit emotionless for production cars. The 720 has soul, but the focus of the car was not that, it was its performance. The focus of the Pista was both performance and soul.

I’ll try to make the intangible tangible:
Design
The 720 is not the prettiest car. Very technical, every part has a function. The Ferrari is subjectively more sinuous and sexy.
McLaren has a moving, high tech dashboard with a lot of digital implementation.
Ferrari has a more old school, cockpit but it reminds you more of Ferrari F1. i.e. Manettino switch.
Yes, the sound is a part and the Ferrari sounds more emotional. They also spend more time on that than McLaren.
History and brand
Ferrari history is longer and richer. It helps that Ferrari is the strongest brand in the world. This plays a role in the emotions of driving the car, just as much as the numbers.
Craftsmanship, the human aspect
Ferrari pushes on that in almost every documentary. McLaren is perceived more as a manufacturer that builds car with robots.

You will get a chance to really understand this when you drive the cars, not when reading a post on a forum. This topic has everything to do with perception. I can’t make you see what I see. I’m not stating that one car is better than the other, I’m stating the differences in focus and the variables that end up making the cars feel different.

Some interviews about the Pista:
Here's What Makes the Ferrari 488 Pista a Monster
Ferrari Marketing Boss Nicola Boari Talks the 488 Pista, and How the Carmaker Names Its Supercars

 

[manuelf]

@tristatez28lt1

OK. So a fair answer from you. It is some witchcraft and many many things (which you concede) are purely happening in the mind of people (taking into account the long history Ferrari does have).
So - in 50 years (if we still have sportscars) it somewhat evens out, because then also McL has more history ...
I would take an 720S over a vanilla 488GTB but maybe a Pista over a 720S

 

[WBarnes]

2:07.5 on Silverstone GP with Chris Harris driving on worn tyres.

 

[Yaz]

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[Switar]

It's time for a real test

 

[bmwz4coupe]

It's time for a real test

Yes, let's see how fast this ugly beast is...

 

[WBarnes]

 

[WBarnes]

 

[bialkov]

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[WBarnes]

 

[EKaru]

https://www.germancarforum.com/threads/2018-mclaren-p15-senna.58616/

 

[mihc]

 

[hoffmeister_fan]

regarding the exhaust pipes in the US

 

[Yaz]

Still, they could have left the third pipe for aesthetics.

 

[sako97]

One day McLaren has to give a honorary 570s or something to Peloton for the ambassador/guru work he's done for the brand since way before they had an online presence.