New short article: DSG to replace SMG

Zafiro

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http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2369

It’s been a while since my description of the Subaru B9 Tribeca’s front end as a “flying vagina” got TTAC banned from… BMW’s press fleet. At the time, the German company’s PR flack promised/threatened to monitor the site and “get back in touch;” you know, when he’d decided that we’d been good little boys. Yeah right. There’s a higher likelihood that Godot will hang with Vladimir and Estragon than a Bimmer flackling calling TTAC to welcome us back into the fold. Still, we’ve managed to end run the embargo. And we’ve shown no animus or (Godot forbid) favoritism in our reviews of their products (e.g. Jay Shoemaker recently declared the 335i one of the millennia’s best motors). So I can once again state without fear or favor that BMW’s SMG gearbox is the worst gearbox on planet earth, by a large margin. Now, thanks to a generous reader, we’ve learned that BMW has bought Borg Warner’s dual clutch transmission (DCT) technology. The world’s best gearbox (known as DSG in Volkswagen/Audi world) will appear in BMW products as early as next year. So who says you can’t teach an old dog new tricks? Speak, Rover BMW, speak!
 
Not suprising. DSG seem to be so much more smoother for daily use.
 
I doubt it. CVTs have a really bad reputation for having an 'unsporty' character, and for not enabling as much driver control. Not what BMW really wants, if they'll go far enough to make a RWD small hatchback.
 
BMW used CVT in the previous non S mini cooper....but i dont think they will ever use it again...
I've driven an 2.0 A4 with CVT and the transmission is just horrible, could never get used to it:t-banghea :t-banghea
 
DocM said:
BMW used CVT in the previous non S mini cooper....but i dont think they will ever use it again...
I've driven an 2.0 A4 with CVT and the transmission is just horrible, could never get used to it:t-banghea :t-banghea
Agreed on CVT. The feel is just very unnatural. I guess one adapts to anything and it would start feeling OK. But sporty it will never be.
 
I believe the most important disadvantages of CVT, the rubber-band-effect and the inability to handle high torque figures are mostly solved. Audi's Multitronic for example can take up to 400 Nm of torque.

BTW
Just made a thread about next generation transmissions: http://www.germancarforum.com/showthread.php?t=6640
 
bmer said:
Eni, has BMW considered offering CVTs as well?


Edit: Is this the SMG III: http://www.getrag.de/454

No CVT in BMW.

Yes, that's SMG III.

:usa7uh:


Regarding Luk's PSG : could be as well. BMW will use different solutions for different engine types / vehicle models - like they do with manual & automatic gearboxes.

Btw, aren't Porsche vehicles a potential hosts for PSG gearboxes?
 
Questions:

Is there also a twin clutch that can also downshift fast ?!

Now the thing about duals is that I don't know much about them.

The DSG used on the Golf/Audi is way faster on upshift vs. SMG III, but it's slow on downshifts.

The one used on the Veyron is quite slower than the SMG II and III.

Between the 2.0 and 8.0 quad turbo is an big differnce in torque/power witch IMO explains the diferences in upshit time 8 ms vs. 125 ms.

So how would it behave on the S85 engine vs. the 2 formentioned ?

And on a track considering you need to both upshift and downshift, witch version would be faster ?!
 
Imhotep Evil said:
Questions:

Is there also a twin clutch that can also downshift fast ?!

Now the thing about duals is that I don't know much about them.

The DSG used on the Golf/Audi is way faster on upshift vs. SMG III, but it's slow on downshifts.

The one used on the Veyron is quite slower than the SMG II and III.

Between the 2.0 and 8.0 quad turbo is an big differnce in torque/power witch IMO explains the diferences in upshit time 8 ms vs. 125 ms.

So how would it behave on the S85 engine vs. the 2 formentioned ?

And on a track considering you need to both upshift and downshift, witch version would be faster ?!


I'm not so sure DCT will replace SMG in M cars. It will replace SMG in non-M cars - that's for sure. I guess DCT will be offered in sporty versions of non-M cars (eg. in "si" & "sd" editions). While SMG kind of gearboxes will still be offered in M-cars.
 
EniLab said:
No CVT in BMW.



Regarding Luk's PSG : could be as well. BMW will use different solutions for different engine types / vehicle models - like they do with manual & automatic gearboxes.

Btw, aren't Porsche vehicles a potential hosts for PSG gearboxes?

You mean that it's sure that BMW won't offer CVT in the future either?

And has LuK's ASG (Automatic Shift Gearbox) or ESG (Electrical Shift Gearbox) been used by any car manufacturer?

Here's one interesting interview with the LuK CEO (who had worked 17 years at Porsche): http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0KJI/is_4_117/ai_n13651492/pg_1

I was surprised how many transmission projects Ricardo has been involved in (pdf): http://www.ricardo.com/download/pdf/Ricardo_Trans_case_studies.pdf
 
Imhotep Evil said:
Ricardo is one of the leaders, with their clutch on the Veyron.
Yeah, I knew about the Veyron but I was surprised how many other projects they have been in.
 

BMW

Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany. The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)

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