C-Class W204 New Direct Injection Turbo Engines for W204

[Untertürkheim]

I don't really care about the diesels Mercedes has always been competitive there, and I don't know what Mercedes has going on in other parts of the world with their CGI 3.5L V6, but what I do know is that here in the U.S. Mercedes is way behind in the V6 class. 268hp simply doesn't cut it anymore. Acura, Infiniti, BMW, Lincoln, Audi, Cadillac, and Lexus all have 300+hp V6 engines.

Don't care if the people use it or not, this is Mercedes-Benz and they shouldn't be down nearly 40hp compared to their competitors.

292hp is nice for the DI V6 in Europe, but here even that is behind the class.

Mercedes needs a new DI, turbo V6 with at least 325hp in every vehicle with the "350" badge in the U.S. The SLK350 is fine. High rev V6 is good for that model. C350, E350, ML350 need help, now!


M

Funny, for the most part, I only care about their diesel engines. No matter one's preference though, MB has always dominated in the diesel market, it is perhaps their most important segment.

 

[dtd]

Funny, for the most part, I only care about their diesel engines. No matter one's preference though, MB has always dominated in the diesel market, it is perhaps their most important segment.

So are we going to see either the new C 220CDI ( 170hp) or the C 250CDI ( 204hp) with 7G this Fall as 2011MY ( with a facelift) ?
dtd

 

[tennmb]

I would be one thing to have the lower hp engines here in the US, if they got incredible fuel mileage. The reality is that they get the same or worse than engines with 30 more hp.
I'm sorry but the Infiniti is over powered. I can't even enjoy driving the car, because it jumps and jerks off the line. I know that will appeal to some drivers, but not all. Not the majority.
I don't have a problem having a 325hp engine as an option, but the base engines should focus on solid performance and economy. Not drag racing.

 

[Merc1]

The Infiniti is not overpowered the throttle is just calibrated wrong. There are cars with much more power that are much easier to drive.

The thing I hate about driving other people's cars that aren't German or even European is the throttle. They're usually way too jumpy and try to create the impression of power, but the reality of it is that they make the car jumpy and to drive smoothly. The car isn't overpowered because a Kia I recently drove had the same problem, and it had no power once you got past the initial jump off.


M

 

[Untertürkheim]

I would be one thing to have the lower hp engines here in the US, if they got incredible fuel mileage. The reality is that they get the same or worse than engines with 30 more hp.
I'm sorry but the Infiniti is over powered. I can't even enjoy driving the car, because it jumps and jerks off the line. I know that will appeal to some drivers, but not all. Not the majority.
I don't have a problem having a 325hp engine as an option, but the base engines should focus on solid performance and economy. Not drag racing.

The problem with the Infiniti engine is that it is completely unrefined and inefficient. The 300/350 MB engines might be less powerful than the Infiniti, but they are far better in every other way.

 

[Untertürkheim]

So are we going to see either the new C 220CDI ( 170hp) or the C 250CDI ( 204hp) with 7G this Fall as 2011MY ( with a facelift) ?
dtd

I do not think MB would bother offering the detuned 220CDI, I have been told that we will have a 4-cyl diesel C, and my guess would be a 250CDI 7G.

 

[dtd]

I do not think MB would bother offering the detuned 220CDI, I have been told that we will have a 4-cyl diesel C, and my guess would be a 250CDI 7G.

I think so too. I don't think American would buy a $30K+ car with 170hp. No matter how frugal fuel consumption it is.When you buy a MB car, you buy an image, beside the performance, quality,prestige etc. So , 200hp is the minimum they have to offer for the C. Otherwise, people would buy a Prius.By the way, how do you know the G37 is unrefined? Do you own one?The end of this year, Infiniti will offer the G25 which will be around 200hp at low $30K. I think you don't really need more than 300hp for a small car.
dtd

 

[Untertürkheim]

I think so too. I don't think American would buy a $30K+ car with 170hp. No matter how frugal fuel consumption it is.When you buy a MB car, you buy an image, beside the performance, quality,prestige etc. So , 200hp is the minimum they have to offer for the C. Otherwise, people would buy a Prius.By the way, how do you know the G37 is unrefined? Do you own one?The end of this year, Infiniti will offer the G25 which will be around 200hp at low $30K. I think you don't really need more than 300hp for a small car.
dtd

Especially since all versions of the OM651 (200/220/250 CDI) all have the same fuel consumption, I could not see any motive to sell anything besides the 250.

Regarding the Infiniti, I do not (and would not) own one. Several friends have Infinitis, all of them different iterations of the G which I have driven; and while the interiors have improved over the years, the cars still fall short of the C and 3 in high speed touring composure. The old 5 speed auto from the 35 is disappointing, and the gearing is so short that anything over 75mph produces so much engine noise and fuel consumption. Even with the 6mt, that engine is thirsty, and is VERY hard on oil.

 

[dtd]

I agree with you Mr. U ( May I call you that name ? ). I think the 250 CDI makes sense for America, since they have to show the V8 feeling ( torque) in a 4 bangers.
About the Infiniti, I don't want to defend for them but as a long time Nissan driver ( 2 Maximas) , I find their ancient 4 speed auto as adequate and smooth. The auto 5 could be better and they did not tune it properly. I think their 3.0 V6 engine is one of the best among all Japanese cars in the 90s.They head to the wrong direction as they move to 3.5 and now 3.7. They go to the hp war and forget about fuel efficiency. What Nissan needs to do is to expand the newly introduced Diesel engine in the FX serie in Europe to America. Is this a Renault engine? Automakers should make cars more green and fun to drive rather than just more hp.
dtd

 

[Untertürkheim]

I agree with you Mr. U ( May I call you that name ? ). I think the 250 CDI makes sense for America, since they have to show the V8 feeling ( torque) in a 4 bangers.
About the Infiniti, I don't want to defend for them but as a long time Nissan driver ( 2 Maximas) , I find their ancient 4 speed auto as adequate and smooth. The auto 5 could be better and they did not tune it properly. I think their 3.0 V6 engine is one of the best among all Japanese cars in the 90s.They head to the wrong direction as they move to 3.5 and now 3.7. They go to the hp war and forget about fuel efficiency. What Nissan needs to do is to expand the newly introduced Diesel engine in the FX serie in Europe to America. Is this a Renault engine? Automakers should make cars more green and fun to drive rather than just more hp.
dtd

I actually like Nissan most of the Japanese big three, and they put out excellent products. The J30 and Q45 were the best in their class by a huge margin, as were the Maxima/I30. Actually, a friend who had an I30t (on which he put 250k miles with good care, and it always ran well) traded for a G35 sedan which turned out to be much less efficient at high speeds, and much louder since 80mph gives about 3200 rpm, which is terrible engineering for something with so much power.

I tend to drive at high speeds, which is where I find cars really do stand apart, and sadly the Infiniti G cars could stand quite a bit of improvement there.

Also, Mr. U will be just fine

 

[dtd]

I actually like Nissan most of the Japanese big three, and they put out excellent products. The J30 and Q45 were the best in their class by a huge margin, as were the Maxima/I30. Actually, a friend who had an I30t (on which he put 250k miles with good care, and it always ran well) traded for a G35 sedan which turned out to be much less efficient at high speeds, and much louder since 80mph gives about 3200 rpm, which is terrible engineering for something with so much power.

I tend to drive at high speeds, which is where I find cars really do stand apart, and sadly the Infiniti G cars could stand quite a bit of improvement there.

Also, Mr. U will be just fine

I think Nissan, make good engines . Their trademark engint is the VQ 3.0 V6 which debut in 1995.It was the top 10 engine for at least 10 years in the row on Ward's auto rating ( if I remember correctly). The problem with Japanese car makers in general is their sheet metal is thinner than the German competitor. Also, Germans make cars for high speed , Japanese make cars for fuel efficiency. So when Nissan try to compete with BMW in hp war , they make bigger engines but not to improve the body/frame structure, that shows their weakness in term of performance. For engine refinement , I think if you go over 3.0l for the V6, you will lose some smoothness or balance somehow. However, they improve over time, in term of transmission, engine tuning. At the end, styling is another matter, and so far , I see the C looks better than the G35/37. Now, the question is how much in term of base price will MB offer for the C 250CDI ? I expect the 0-60 acceleration for the C250CDI w G7 about 7.6s and fuel consumption is about 35mpg ( city/highway combined) . Those numbers plus a interior change/upgrade and under $33K would be the main selling point.

dtd

 

[Merc1]

The J30 and Q45, best in their class? What class was that?


M

 

[Gullwing]

The J30 and Q45, best in their class? What class was that?


M

The crappy Japanese class

 

[dtd]

The crappy Japanese class

Guys,
Oh please don't be too harsh on Japanese automakers. Nobody is perfect.

dtd

 

[Untertürkheim]

The J30 and Q45, best in their class? What class was that?


M

There was nothing in that size and price class that had anything close to a RWD touring car in the early to mid 90s. The J30 was much cheaper than a W124 or BMW 5 at the time, as was the Q45 vs the W140 or 7.

 

[Untertürkheim]

I think Nissan, make good engines . Their trademark engint is the VQ 3.0 V6 which debut in 1995.It was the top 10 engine for at least 10 years in the row on Ward's auto rating ( if I remember correctly). The problem with Japanese car makers in general is their sheet metal is thinner than the German competitor. Also, Germans make cars for high speed , Japanese make cars for fuel efficiency. So when Nissan try to compete with BMW in hp war , they make bigger engines but not to improve the body/frame structure, that shows their weakness in term of performance. For engine refinement , I think if you go over 3.0l for the V6, you will lose some smoothness or balance somehow. However, they improve over time, in term of transmission, engine tuning. At the end, styling is another matter, and so far , I see the C looks better than the G35/37. Now, the question is how much in term of base price will MB offer for the C 250CDI ? I expect the 0-60 acceleration for the C250CDI w G7 about 7.6s and fuel consumption is about 35mpg ( city/highway combined) . Those numbers plus a interior change/upgrade and under $33K would be the main selling point.

dtd

I think your price estimate is about $10k us too low, and Japanese cars are really not more efficient in real life usage. The Japanese automakers build to the EPA test, while the EU carmakers build for real world useage. The C300 I have has been averaging over 25mpg for mixed use, while the epa says this should be 20.

 

[Merc1]

There was nothing in that size and price class that had anything close to a RWD touring car in the early to mid 90s. The J30 was much cheaper than a W124 or BMW 5 at the time, as was the Q45 vs the W140 or 7.

Oh no I see, they were best in a class of one. Cause clearly there were better cars. If we're going to use that logic then the LS400 was the best in its "class" too. The J30 was an interesting car, but the back seat was a joke. The engine was loud and sucked gas like a V8. My best friends Aunt had one of the very first ones sold in the Chicago area. The Q45 was a good car, I'll give you that but a BMW 5-Series or 7-Series by 1993 with their V8s were at the very least competitive with the Q by then.

M

 

[Untertürkheim]

Oh no I see, they were best in a class of one. Cause clearly there were better cars. If we're going to use that logic then the LS400 was the best in its "class" too. The J30 was an interesting car, but the back seat was a joke. The engine was loud and sucked gas like a V8. My best friends Aunt had one of the very first ones sold in the Chicago area. The Q45 was a good car, I'll give you that but a BMW 5-Series or 7-Series by 1993 with their V8s were at the very least competitive with the Q by then.

M

I would take a 1993 Q45a over an LS400 or Legend, or towncar or Seville, just as I would take a J30t over a Vigor or ES300 or Buick La Sabre or Lincoln Continental.

The Infinitis were not the best cars of the time, but if someone wanted a car larger than a 190 for $35k in 1990-1995, there were not many good choices.

 

[Gullwing]

I think your price estimate is about $10k us too low, and Japanese cars are really not more efficient in real life usage. The Japanese automakers build to the EPA test, while the EU carmakers build for real world useage. The C300 I have has been averaging over 25mpg for mixed use, while the epa says this should be 20.

The 07 E350 had epa estimate of 26mpg, while the 08 with no changes had epa estimate of 24mpg. On long trips I would get 27-28mpg with average speeds of around 75mph.

 

[Untertürkheim]

The 07 E350 had epa estimate of 26mpg, while the 08 with no changes had epa estimate of 24mpg. On long trips I would get 27-28mpg with average speeds of around 75mph.

27-28 still seems like high consumption for that car at only 75, what tire pressures was that using?