New BMW N54 3.0 litre twin-turbo: Official

[Matt]

But you must realize what this means for the aftermarket industry. Now all you have to do is chip you 335 and you're going to have a true sleeper car on your hands. There will be tons of 335 which have relatively few aftermarket additions and will be able to keep up with the upcoming M3 coupe. I personally like the way things were, with the huge gap between the M spec and regular BMWs.

Thats a great point. Tuners will be able to get a lot of power out of it just by chipping it and maybe some exhaust work. Excellent point PG.

 

[Osnabrueck]

I think having the 335 as an option will be great if the price is righti. Otherwise it would make more sense to save for the M3, unless you're desperate. But this is only if the 335's price isn't far enough down the pricing latter to justify it's cause next to the M3. I love turbo's, have one right now, so it's great for me.

In your opinion, what's the "right price" for the 335i? There's already a $6k gap between the 325 and the 330. If we lop another $6k atop that, we're in the neighborhood of $43,000.

The current M3 runs you a base of $49,000, so unless there's a significant price increase for the E90 model I think it's too close for comfort. Personally, I couldn't imagine buying the 335 if another $6k or so would get me in a new M3. There should still be a very significant performance/prestige gap between the "normal" cars and their Motorsport-tuned cousins.

In a perfect world, the 325i would be eliminated, the 330i would drop about $2k in price and take on the 325's equpiment package. The 335i would fill in for the midrange, but would sticker for about $39,500.

 

[Zafiro]

Thats a great point. Tuners will be able to get a lot of power out of it just by chipping it and maybe some exhaust work. Excellent point PG.

Dont forget that the new M3 will get a V8, 335i only have 6-cylinders. M3 is a high-reeving car with an extraordinary driving experience and with awesome handling. You can make a 335i fast in straightline but its still not a M3.

Majority of those who can afford a M3 V8 wont choose a 335i. 335i isnt special enough.

 

[Porsche Guy]

The current M3 runs you a base of $49,000, so unless there's a significant price increase for the E90 model I think it's too close for comfort. Personally, I couldn't imagine buying the 335 if another $6k or so would get me in a new M3. There should still be a very significant performance/prestige gap between the "normal" cars and their Motorsport-tuned cousins.

I would expect the e90 M3 to have a base price around $60K. The e60 M5 starts $10K higher than the e39 M5 did. Also, don't forget that the BMW now has the 1 series and its litter of offspring, which is supposed to spawn an M version. BMW has to move car prices up to make room! Don't forget about inflation, exchange rates, increase in material costs (isn't steel really expensive?) and everything else that goes into building cars.

 

[Osnabrueck]

I wouldn't blame market conditions for the steady inflation of select car prices. Instead, I'd blame feature creap and the constant pressure put upon brands like BMW et al. to produce cars with more power, better handling and more space. Afterall, Toyota is readying the Yaris for the NA market; a quality econobox that'll sticker for a paltry $12k. Granted, the continued weekness of the dollar keeps the Euro brands in a tough spot - but North America's luxury car market (read Lexus, Acura, Caddy) still plays a large role in regulating sticker price.

Now remember, when it comes to the positioning of the 335i I'm thinking primarily in the context of North America, since it's where I live, and where I plan to buy. 1er or not though, the new engine poses to create conflicts of interest within BMW's range because of the expected price to performance ratio.

I don't know why you'd expect the E90 M3 to sticker a whole $10k higher than its predecessor - we've witnessed BMW price creep proceed 1 or 2k at a time, model for model. If the M3 were positioned at such a stratospherically high price it would become easy prey for offerings from Audi, Benz and Cadillac.

I believe you're wrong about the M5. The current M5 stickers at $81,500, and if memory serves me correct, the E39 was just shy of $80k.

Of course, this is still blind conjecture. I'm hoping we'll see the 335i bow for a "ah, not bad" kind of price.

 

[Porsche Guy]

I don't know why you'd expect the E90 M3 to sticker a whole $10k higher than its predecessor - we've witnessed BMW price creep proceed 1 or 2k at a time, model for model. If the M3 were positioned at such a stratospherically high price it would become easy prey for offerings from Audi, Benz and Cadillac.

I believe you're wrong about the M5. The current M5 stickers at $81,500, and if memory serves me correct, the E39 was just shy of $80k.

Sure, the M5's sticker is $81,500 but few people can resist the urge to buy all those price extras. My M5 was closer to $95K when all was said and done (paid MSRP). The e39 M5 did not have nearly as expensive or longe of an options list, thus keeping its price down. So perhaps the e90 M3 will come with a base of around $52K, but I would expect some pricey options to raise that figure into the mid $60s out the door.

 

[Osnabrueck]

Sure, when you add all the extras you're talking about a good $8k over what you may have had one generation ago, but it's not as though we're getting less with our base price. It's just that things like navi and and premium sound have become must-haves for cars like the 3er.

Still, let's keep it apples and apples. Talking strictly base price, we can probably expect the E90 M3 to clock in with a sticker in the low 50s. If BMW keeps the 335 at or just below $40k there's plenty of reason to get excited. My gut tells me there should be at least a good $10k seperating the M3 and the rest of 'em.

 

[Zafiro]

i talked to someone who ordered the new M3 V8. According to him the base price isnt much higher compared to M3 E46. Add equippment and of course the price will raise.

 

[Osnabrueck]

I'll toss out a question for the board: How much do you guys think the price gap should be between the 335i and the M3 sedan?

Personally, I think the gap should be no less than $10k, although $12k seems more appropriate.

For reference, the current 330Ci stickers at $37,600 - and the M3 Coupe goes for $48,900. A difference of roughly $10k. If we magically added a 335Ci into the mix there doesn't seem much wiggle room between the 330 and the M3.

 

[Deutsch]

In your opinion, what's the "right price" for the 335i? There's already a $6k gap between the 325 and the 330. If we lop another $6k atop that, we're in the neighborhood of $43,000.

The current M3 runs you a base of $49,000, so unless there's a significant price increase for the E90 model I think it's too close for comfort. Personally, I couldn't imagine buying the 335 if another $6k or so would get me in a new M3. There should still be a very significant performance/prestige gap between the "normal" cars and their Motorsport-tuned cousins.

In a perfect world, the 325i would be eliminated, the 330i would drop about $2k in price and take on the 325's equpiment package. The 335i would fill in for the midrange, but would sticker for about $39,500.

IMO, the right price for a 335 would be around $43k, since it's a performance oriented model, $33k for the 328, and about $27k for the 323. So $6k between each model respectively. I think anyone who disagrees w/ such a priicing scheme, other than being realistic, is being just plain unreasonable. I think this gives those that can't afford 30k+ on a BMW an oppurutnity to own one, and those that have the cash to go big, can do so. But this is just all in my head.

 

[Osnabrueck]

You're getting mixed up man. BMW isn't offering a 323 or a 328. They're selling the 325i and the 330i, which cost roughly $30k and $36k respectively. The 335 really shouldn't incurr more than a $6k premium atop the 330i. $43k seems like a tad too much, although that number seems like an accurate guess.

 

[Deutsch]

Mixed up? I don't think so, I'm just going along w/ the gossip that speaks of the 330i being renamed "328", and the 325, "323". Who knows, just speaking of the rumors I've been hearing.

My hope and guess is, is that the prices on the current models will be bumped down w/ the advent of the 335 going on sale.

 

[Osnabrueck]

I beg your pardon then. I wasn't aware of the re-numbering rumors.

I'd be surprised if they went that route, although they can pretty much go whatever direction they please since the current numbering scheme is relatively arbitrary. They might want the 335 have the honor of being the only engine in the 30s.

I'm skeptical about the price decreases though. I guess I could imagine a re-arrangement that involves a 323i, 328i and 335i with the 328i taking on a reduced standard equipment package compared to the current 330i.

Even if they did that, I don't think we'd see prices drop that much for the re-named models. Perhaps something in the order of $1k or so.

It seems retarded to get so worked up over such minutia, but I keep thinking I'll end up buying one of these cars so it's fun to play the guessing game.

 

[warot]

Mixed up? I don't think so, I'm just going along w/ the gossip that speaks of the 330i being renamed "328", and the 325, "323". Who knows, just speaking of the rumors I've been hearing.

My hope and guess is, is that the prices on the current models will be bumped down w/ the advent of the 335 going on sale.

The 323i already exists... just not in the US. It's actually a 2.5 liter engine.

 

[martinbo]

Osna, Deutsch, neither pricing nor market positioning poses the greatest dilemma for BMW and their introduction of the 335i. In my opinion it's performance. The M3, as Just_me rightly pointed out will be a far more special, precision driving implement than the range topping non-M model. The problem is, 400 Nm of torque at a lowly 1500 rpm equals instant in-gear acceleration. Without question, at real world speeds the 335i will have more torque at its disposal than the short-stroke high revving M3 whose engine, clearly, is a derivative of the M5's sans two cylinders.

A lot of M3 owners will find it darn annoying to have to rifle down that gearbox and rev the dickens out of the thing in order to drop that pesky 335i at freeway speeds. Sure, the M3 isn't just about straightline speed, but then again neither is an ordinary 330i.

I can't wait to see if BMW allows Alpina to tune the 335i. That would make for an interesting prospect.

 

[Matt]

Thats what I noticed about the difference between the M5 and the 645. The 645's torque was ready available with a touch on the gas. The M5 required more gera search for that 5500 rpm torque take off (that probably didnt make that much sense)

 

[Deutsch]

Osna, Deutsch, neither pricing nor market positioning poses the greatest dilemma for BMW and their introduction of the 335i. In my opinion it's performance. The M3, as Just_me rightly pointed out will be a far more special, precision driving implement than the range topping non-M model. The problem is, 400 Nm of torque at a lowly 1500 rpm equals instant in-gear acceleration. Without question, at real world speeds the 335i will have more torque at its disposal than the short-stroke high revving M3 whose engine, clearly, is a derivative of the M5's sans two cylinders.

A lot of M3 owners will find it darn annoying to have to rifle down that gearbox and rev the dickens out of the thing in order to drop that pesky 335i at freeway speeds. Sure, the M3 isn't just about straightline speed, but then again neither is an ordinary 330i.

I can't wait to see if BMW allows Alpina to tune the 335i. That would make for an interesting prospect.

O we have discussed this indeed, sometime ago actually. I think of the 335i as being a series production E46 330i ZHP, w/ out the ZHP price. The 335 is an enthusiast model for those that want to experience a sporty driving experience that cannot necessarily afford an M3. Or don't want the moderately flashy nature associated w/ the M3. So basically an E46 M3 for a little more than 330i money.

 

[warot]

I think these two cars will be quite different in character actually. While the M3 is more of a track car, the 335i will be more of a cruiser.

M3 has SMG, adjustable suspension, those amazing bucket seats, high revving engine. The 335i on the other hand is more about torque than anything and doesn't rev as high.

IMO, that's enough to distinguish between the two.

 

[E12]

But when the new m3 arrives with a brand new motor, it will be at sales worldwide.While the 335i is a car aiming for older people than the infamous Ring runner, almost certain abroad since the US market is their(BMW) biggest, and petrol is cheaper,
A 335 would be a bold investement i Norway, prices at 1.2 euro per liter gas.
I imagine more like a Beverly Hills`wife second car, or a elderly couple in a country with good infrastructure.M5-Autobahn.

Norway is classic m3 terrain(ON the road), turn-turn-turn.Less gearing-no-turbo, smg, and not a heavy lump of an engine to make life harder at swaying roads.

335icsl for example-a contradiction

 

[PanterroR]

Video about engine from Rustalk.com:

VIDEO