Mr. Mercedes
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I started writing this post as a response to a discussion between @Monster and @Rolf in the C-class thread about the C-class's ride quality but as I typed it it became a bit longer. The original thread can be viewed here:
http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/mercedes-benz-c-class-w205.50002/page-131#post-823811
The deterioration of ride quality is something I have been noticing on MB vehicles for the last 4-5 years. The vehicles riding on the MFA architecture were all launched with particularly poor rides and MB has been slowly addressing this with the facelifts via the addition of adaptive dampers, but it is now also an issue afflicted vehicles on MRA architecture. I'd be very interested in hearing the opinions of the more technically minding forum members in our midst, i.e @martinbo, @Sunny, @Gianclaudio etc. to name just a few. What their impressions are if they have driven more recent MB models, and if they have any idea what's going on over in Stuttgart.
Firstly to address the discussion between Rolf and Derek regarding the C-class, from my experience over the last 18 months with mums airmatic fitted C250, the C-class with air suspension is nowhere near as plush as you would expect. At least not so with 19inch run flats fitted to my mums car. The larger suspension movements are smooth and loping, but the smaller movements are quite fidgety. There's a constant 'knoblyness' over minor imperfections, and our roads here are full of those, which means the ride is never settled. The air suspension also slaps quite abruptly over sharp ridges and pot holes. And it feels like it lacks the right amount of 'rubberyness', (in technical terms I thinks that's referred to as dampening? Correct me I'm mistaken please.) over these ridges.
Wheels magazine noted similar issues on the range of E-class's tested at this years Australian Car of the Year. They complained about the same fidgety sensation, describing it as braille for your bum, on both the steel suspended and air suspended models. They noted the E-class failed to ride as well as a Mercedes Sedan should. I had a loan E-200 for two days a fortnight ago and my impression was the same as Wheels magazine. I was not impressed by the ride. The car I had was fitted with the standard suspension and even so it lacked the plushness of my uncles post facelift W212 even though his is fitted with the AMG sport suspension. It transmitted every minor imperfection through to the seat base that are not noted on my uncles post FL W212.
On a brighter not, The C-coupe was noted for having a better ride than the comparable C sedan. They felt that tweaks had been made to the suspension of the Coupe that made it a better riding and handling vehicle than the sedan.
The GLC tested in Car of the Year testing also suffered ride issues on the steel sprung models. Again my experience with my aunts GLC250 correlates with this impressions of non air suspended models. It just never feels settled. They did note however that the ride was markedly improved on the air suspended models on the GLC range with the The GLC43 in fact having the best sorted suspension of the lot. So at least in the GLC's case it appears that the airmatic improves things to some degree, which can't be said of the C sedan range.
Conversely my dad's W222 S-class, which apparently rides on the old architecture, is absolutely sublime. It is quite simply the most conformable car I have ever sat in. It's controlled, plush and quiet in all situations I have encountered in the last month.
So in short something is going on at Mercedes when it comes to ride quality. I hope it's not an inherent flaw of the new rear wheel drive architecture as it would be an absolutely travesty for the next S-class to suffer a similar fate as the C and E ranges. I'm not even sure if the base chassis architecture can impact on ride to this degree, as the technical/engineering intricacies of this sort of stuff is lost on me, or is it something to do with Mercedes suspension architecture/tuning? Has there been some change in the new generation of vehicles that could be causing this issue? Or is MB's new found obsession of fitting the largest wheels possible with run flat tyres to blame? Perhaps they just lack BMW's experience working with run flats? But then this doesn't explain why the S still rides so adeptly.
When the A4 was launched, the Audi engineers were quite smug to point out that they didn't feel the A4 needed air suspension to deliver a superior ride and handling compromise to the C, and BMW engineers at the 5-series launch said the same thing, that they had achieved a dynamic package superior to the E-class's without air suspension. British comparisons of the E and 5 raised this issue, but I was adamant in waiting for Australian reviews because sometimes the British car magazines seem to offer very skewed/bias reviews (IMO). But now the E-class lack of ride polish has been noted on Australian reviews and confirmed by my own first hand, albeit brief, experience with the E.
So guys...WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT MB!?! First it was just the MFA vehicles, which we excused because MB lacks experience with lower end vehicles, but now the MRA is suffering similarly. Has their focus on interior style (not necessarily quality, which is another issue I could write a very long post about
) and autonomous driving aids distracted them from core chassis tuning or is there something wrong with the MRA architecture or suspension set up? Why is MB throwing airmatic at almost every vehicle in the range C and up? Even so this doesn't seem to be achieving outcomes superior to what Audi and BMW are managing without fanciful air suspension.
P.s I apologies for the poor construction of this post. I'm quite time poor these days between work and family life, but it has been something on my mind for a while now and I really look forward to hearing what you guys think.
http://www.germancarforum.com/threads/mercedes-benz-c-class-w205.50002/page-131#post-823811
The deterioration of ride quality is something I have been noticing on MB vehicles for the last 4-5 years. The vehicles riding on the MFA architecture were all launched with particularly poor rides and MB has been slowly addressing this with the facelifts via the addition of adaptive dampers, but it is now also an issue afflicted vehicles on MRA architecture. I'd be very interested in hearing the opinions of the more technically minding forum members in our midst, i.e @martinbo, @Sunny, @Gianclaudio etc. to name just a few. What their impressions are if they have driven more recent MB models, and if they have any idea what's going on over in Stuttgart.
Firstly to address the discussion between Rolf and Derek regarding the C-class, from my experience over the last 18 months with mums airmatic fitted C250, the C-class with air suspension is nowhere near as plush as you would expect. At least not so with 19inch run flats fitted to my mums car. The larger suspension movements are smooth and loping, but the smaller movements are quite fidgety. There's a constant 'knoblyness' over minor imperfections, and our roads here are full of those, which means the ride is never settled. The air suspension also slaps quite abruptly over sharp ridges and pot holes. And it feels like it lacks the right amount of 'rubberyness', (in technical terms I thinks that's referred to as dampening? Correct me I'm mistaken please.) over these ridges.
Wheels magazine noted similar issues on the range of E-class's tested at this years Australian Car of the Year. They complained about the same fidgety sensation, describing it as braille for your bum, on both the steel suspended and air suspended models. They noted the E-class failed to ride as well as a Mercedes Sedan should. I had a loan E-200 for two days a fortnight ago and my impression was the same as Wheels magazine. I was not impressed by the ride. The car I had was fitted with the standard suspension and even so it lacked the plushness of my uncles post facelift W212 even though his is fitted with the AMG sport suspension. It transmitted every minor imperfection through to the seat base that are not noted on my uncles post FL W212.
On a brighter not, The C-coupe was noted for having a better ride than the comparable C sedan. They felt that tweaks had been made to the suspension of the Coupe that made it a better riding and handling vehicle than the sedan.
The GLC tested in Car of the Year testing also suffered ride issues on the steel sprung models. Again my experience with my aunts GLC250 correlates with this impressions of non air suspended models. It just never feels settled. They did note however that the ride was markedly improved on the air suspended models on the GLC range with the The GLC43 in fact having the best sorted suspension of the lot. So at least in the GLC's case it appears that the airmatic improves things to some degree, which can't be said of the C sedan range.
Conversely my dad's W222 S-class, which apparently rides on the old architecture, is absolutely sublime. It is quite simply the most conformable car I have ever sat in. It's controlled, plush and quiet in all situations I have encountered in the last month.
So in short something is going on at Mercedes when it comes to ride quality. I hope it's not an inherent flaw of the new rear wheel drive architecture as it would be an absolutely travesty for the next S-class to suffer a similar fate as the C and E ranges. I'm not even sure if the base chassis architecture can impact on ride to this degree, as the technical/engineering intricacies of this sort of stuff is lost on me, or is it something to do with Mercedes suspension architecture/tuning? Has there been some change in the new generation of vehicles that could be causing this issue? Or is MB's new found obsession of fitting the largest wheels possible with run flat tyres to blame? Perhaps they just lack BMW's experience working with run flats? But then this doesn't explain why the S still rides so adeptly.
When the A4 was launched, the Audi engineers were quite smug to point out that they didn't feel the A4 needed air suspension to deliver a superior ride and handling compromise to the C, and BMW engineers at the 5-series launch said the same thing, that they had achieved a dynamic package superior to the E-class's without air suspension. British comparisons of the E and 5 raised this issue, but I was adamant in waiting for Australian reviews because sometimes the British car magazines seem to offer very skewed/bias reviews (IMO). But now the E-class lack of ride polish has been noted on Australian reviews and confirmed by my own first hand, albeit brief, experience with the E.
So guys...WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON AT MB!?! First it was just the MFA vehicles, which we excused because MB lacks experience with lower end vehicles, but now the MRA is suffering similarly. Has their focus on interior style (not necessarily quality, which is another issue I could write a very long post about
) and autonomous driving aids distracted them from core chassis tuning or is there something wrong with the MRA architecture or suspension set up? Why is MB throwing airmatic at almost every vehicle in the range C and up? Even so this doesn't seem to be achieving outcomes superior to what Audi and BMW are managing without fanciful air suspension. P.s I apologies for the poor construction of this post. I'm quite time poor these days between work and family life, but it has been something on my mind for a while now and I really look forward to hearing what you guys think.
