Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Design FIRST]

China is IMHO dead, period.

I agree with everything else.

Eurocrats bumbling about regarding the envisioned EU-Mercosur Trade Accord is a big problem. India's market will become increasingly important. Rebounding in China is indeed questionable as German manufacturers and policy makers were asleep at the wheel for far, far too long. The U.S. market ? As an old guy "socialized" in the spirit of a strong, constructive Transatlantic Relationship, I've never been more aware of the very real threat that it may have now irreversibly collapsed and that a "decoupling process" will gain in momentum and perhaps ferocity as well. EU-Canada has now become the far more stable Transatlantic Relationship.

Turbulent times these are...

 

[Swissbob]

The Elefant in the room are US specific cars, which the Japanese companies are building for decades.

Or could you imagine the Toyota Tundra in the tight streets of Japan or Italy.

Are German companies prepared to develop specific cars and engines for the US market, that’s the question.

Let’s be honest, the crazy CO2 taxes in Europe are killing big non hybrid engines on the European market.

That’s why the RS5 became a 2.4t car. 86g CO2 compared 233g CO2/km means much lower taxes.

But in the USA people don’t want these highly complicated cars, they want a big V8 as we could see on Stellantis.
People prefer the much weaker hemi to the much stronger hurricane straight 6 in the ram 1500.

The next generation of gm small block engines grows to 6.7L, naturally aspirated of course.

 

[Design FIRST]

The Elefant in the room are US specific cars.

Both M-B and BMW have large production facilities in the U.S. So, the production of "U.S. specific" vehicles may appear viable...under the condition that...

Are German companies prepared to develop specific cars and engines for the US market, that’s the question.

...the development of which presents an acceptable R.O.I., meaning...

But in the USA people don’t want these highly complicated cars, they want a big V8.

..."old school" comparitively simple ICE tech that need not be significantly, if at all, developed further.

Cheap booze, Bud Lite and stale PBJ sandwiches for the U.S.-American "heartland" automotive picnic.

Of course, will the affluent Pacific west coastal U.S. folks attend ? California is a very significant market.
Many have their own perceptions regarding "good cuisine".

 

[Swissbob]

I guess they could still sell the SUVs in Europe as well but with a different drivetrain.

V6 PHEV or EV in Europe, V8 in the USA.

 

[Design FIRST]

I guess they could still sell the SUVs in Europe as well but with a different drivetrain.

V6 PHEV or EV in Europe, V8 in the USA.

Increasing drivetrain convergence could indeed promote precisely this.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Mercedes is losing it. There is a decisive factor behind the decline of market share, brand perception and -reputation: the perceived imbalance between price and quality. Poor interior quality in the complete line up is really a nail in the coffin of the brand.

Another unfortunate choice, was axing the A class, the entry in the MB universe. Though they try to correct this misguided decision, damage is done. Furthermore correcting isn’t the right word. A dull crossover/van-like A class is not a proper replacement for the sporty A class we’ve been knowing for the last two iterations.

The design of lately, like the EQ models, wasn’t such a problem as some say it was. The main problem of for instance the EQS is it’s price; asking S class money for a non S class product.

Even if they succeed in correcting all the errors, I wonder wether it will help. Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am getting pretty fed up with it by now. Even if the new S is going to be great in every aspect, I’d still feel cheated because they sold me a non-optimal, non-focussed and not ideal W223 S class.

 

[kiki voinea]

asking S class money for a non S class product.

Well , with the recent facelift of the S class , it looks (interior wise ) more EQS , than EQS looked like an S.

Honestly , by this point , I really think that people that bought W223 were the people that missed to buy W222 due to different circumstances . Also , W223 gained huge traction due to the pandemic post auto boom.

 

[Merc1]

Mercedes is losing it. There is a decisive factor behind the decline of market share, brand perception and -reputation: the perceived imbalance between price and quality. Poor interior quality in the complete line up is really a nail in the coffin of the brand.

Another unfortunate choice, was axing the A class, the entry in the MB universe. Though they try to correct this misguided decision, damage is done. Furthermore correcting isn’t the right word. A dull crossover/van-like A class is not a proper replacement for the sporty A class we’ve been knowing for the last two iterations.

The design of lately, like the EQ models, wasn’t such a problem as some say it was. The main problem of for instance the EQS is it’s price; asking S class money for a non S class product.

Even if they succeed in correcting all the errors, I wonder wether it will help. Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am getting pretty fed up with it by now. Even if the new S is going to be great in every aspect, I’d still feel cheated because they sold me a non-optimal, non-focussed and not ideal W223 S class.

I only disagree about the EQ models. They were just too ugly and overpriced. As EVs they're pretty good.

M

 

[Mick Briesgau]

I only disagree about the EQ models. They were just too ugly and overpriced. As EVs they're pretty good.

M

Yes, that’s what people I know say as well — it’s a perfectly fine EV.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Well , with the recent facelift of the S class , it looks (interior wise ) more EQS , than EQS looked like an S.

Honestly , by this point , I really think that people that bought W223 were the people that missed to buy W222 due to different circumstances . Also , W223 gained huge traction due to the pandemic post auto boom.

I see it differently. I think people that bought a W223 were for the most part the same that bought the W222. As is usually the case with S‑Class drivers. They are loyal to the brand, and even more loyal to the S‑Class.

 

[klier]

Eurocrats bumbling about regarding the envisioned EU-Mercosur Trade Accord is a big problem. India's market will become increasingly important.

Aaaah yes. India.

Both M-B and BMW have large production facilities in the U.S.

BMW has the biggest one in the U.S full stop. BMW is also the biggest exporter of cars from the U.S.

 

[fortuner]

Aaaah yes. India.

BMW has the biggest one in the U.S full stop. BMW is also the biggest exporter of cars from the U.S.

Maybe go do a trip to India you will see more Maybach their then probably in Netherlands

 

[SKY]

Even if they succeed in correcting all the errors, I wonder wether it will help. Well, I can only speak for myself, but I am getting pretty fed up with it by now. Even if the new S is going to be great in every aspect, I’d still feel cheated because they sold me a non-optimal, non-focussed and not ideal W223 S class.

Woah, first time I see you write this poorly about the W223. I thought you were mostly pleased with it.

 

[Mick Briesgau]

Woah, first time I see you write this poorly about the W223. I thought you were mostly pleased with it.

From the introduction of the W223, I pointed out the cost‑cutting measures, especially in the interior. I also stated my opinion at the time that the focus, money, time and engineering effort had to be shared with the EQS. That did not benefit the W223.

Don’t get me wrong. The W223 S‑Class, taken on its own, is a fantastic car. Technically, it’s one of the best I’ve ever owned. But it could have been so much better — so much more of an S.

And if it turns out with the W224 that the cost‑cutting is no longer so evident, and especially that the (interior) quality has returned to a higher level, then I will indeed feel short‑changed with the W223.

 

[Design FIRST]

Aaaah yes. India.

Aaaah yes. ALSO India: