Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[leylandi]

Who gives a shit about how much they sell? It’s executives responsibility to think about all that. You guys need to let it go, ffs.

Without these discussions, dalab couldn't survive in this forum. In fact, we're keeping it alive unintentionally.

 

[Esp5]

The S-Class is 6 years old, my friend. The W222 sales figures are also listed above. Similarly, its sales have also dropped. The facelift was delayed by two years; don't you think the decline is normal? You're still trying to create drama.

It's not difficult to do the same calculation for BMW. Sales of the 7-8 series and X7-XM have fallen. Include M sales as well, and write the result here.

You're impossible to deal with; when you lose, you publish these falsified and poorly made charts from this site that manipulates figures. If you don't have official figures, it's better not to publish anything.

 

[Esp5]

Without these discussions, dalab couldn't survive in this forum. In fact, we're keeping it alive unintentionally.

Four pages back you started this debate talking about "expensive segment", not me, all because you can't accept or understand the difference of almost 400,000 cars by 2025 between the two brands

On a separate note, the comment you just made is disgusting; you wouldn't even keep your dog alive.

 

[leylandi]

You're impossible to deal with; when you lose, you publish these falsified and poorly made charts from this site that manipulates figures. If you don't have official figures, it's better not to publish anything.

Why aren't you including the EQS? The Maybach isn't included in the figures either. As you know, it's also an S-Class. Anyway, even if these figures aren't official, they'll be indicative. After all, they're based on data from specific markets. They might be incomplete, but that's a possibility for every vehicle. So the difference won't change much. Most of these cars are sold in China and the US. Data from those countries will be helpful.

 

[leylandi]

You're the one claiming that S-Class sales have hit rock bottom without knowing the official figures. So the manipulation attempt is coming from you. I'm making a statement based on figures, even if they aren't official.

 

[leylandi]

Four pages back you started this debate talking about "expensive segment", not me, all because you can't accept or understand the difference of almost 400,000 cars by 2025 between the two brands

Despite this 400,000 difference, Mercedes sells more high-end cars and earns the same amount of money. I'm trying to make you understand this, but you always evade it.

 

[leylandi]

While the EQS was selling poorly, sales of the S and GLS appear to have increased in the third quarter. You're not going to claim that the increase in the chart is due to the EQS, are you? Well, I've shown you the official figure. Are you going to come up with another excuse?

 

[Esp5]

Despite this 400,000 difference, Mercedes sells more high-end cars and earns the same amount of money. I'm trying to make you understand this, but you always evade it.

No, brother, you're wrong. You're making unsubstantiated claims. Get informed. Admit for once that you're wrong.

Mercedes YTD Q3 2025
3.878 Bn
BMW YTD Q3 2025
5,712 Bn

https://group.mercedes-benz.com/documents/investors/reports/interim-reports/q3/mercedes-benz-interim-report-q3-2025.pdf

https://www.bmwgroup.com/content/dam/grpw/websites/bmwgroup_com/ir/downloads/en/2025/q3/BMW_Q3-2025_EN.pdf

 

[Esp5]

While the EQS was selling poorly, sales of the S and GLS appear to have increased in the third quarter. You're not going to claim that the increase in the chart is due to the EQS, are you? Well, I've shown you the official figure. Are you going to come up with another excuse?

Please man, Mercedes High End sales fell 15% in Q4, look at the whole year not just one quarter please, don't continue

 

[leylandi]

Please man, Mercedes High End sales fell 15% in Q4, look at the whole year not just one quarter please, don't continue

What?

Top-End Vehicle sales in 2025 reached 268,000 units, representing a 15%-share of overall sales.

Mercedes‑AMG achieved one of its best sales results in its history with 145,000 performance vehicles (+7%) delivered to customers in 2025.

Furthermore, the success story of the Mercedes-Benz off-road icon G-Class continues with best-ever sales in 2025 reaching 49,700 customer deliveries (+23%)

Mercedes-Maybach demonstrated its resilience in 2025 with a growing sales share of the S-Class.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I think we've all had enough of this asinine argument. Please for the love of all that is holy, stop now.

 

[Esp5]

What?

Top-End Vehicle sales in 2025 reached 268,000 units, representing a 15%-share of overall sales.

There's the 15% drop in Q4 for the top end and the 5% drop for the whole year 2025. You're post irrelevant figures. 15% share? Lol, all to hide the 9% drop in total sales? I'm out because you're way too biased.

 

[klier]

Absolutely mental. Can we just delete like 4 pages here????

 

[SKY]

I don't know why you keep bringing up the bias issue. What I'm saying is perfectly clear: BMW made a bunch of concept cars, and people weren't exactly eager to buy them with $500,000. That seems to have changed now, and people are lining up for them. That's all I said.

Regarding the 8 Series, it was launched in 2018, completed its seven-year cycle, and went out of production. In its first few years, it sold between 20,000 and 25,000 units per year, which is very good.
Today, you have to make an electric and internal combustion engine successor, and the market is simply elsewhere. So, as they've already announced, there will be a pause, and it will return later.

I haven't said anything about BMWs and Mercedes being priced like Bentleys or Lamborghinis; obviously, nobody will buy them unless they're special editions, which is also commendable.

Except it does not. Of course there is always going to be a public for limited editions. That's independent of the brand. Most of the buyers will never use said cars and have then locked up waiting for resale values to peak. But this has nothing to do with BMW's prestige having incrased in the last 10 years. BMW is what it is, nothing more. Their triumph is not having ruined the brand like Audi and MB have done.

The 8 Series was one of BMW attempts to move upmarket. And it failed. It failed with 2 doors, with no roof and with 4 doors. XM has followed the same steps. And if a BMW supercar came out, it would probably follow them as well. And it's simply cause BMW's pedegree is not there. It's the same case as the French brands failing in the 90s and 2000s each time they tried to launch a sedan competing with the 5er.

And this is being discussed in the MB thread cause the brand is suffering the same fate. At some point in time, MB's brand image was above BMW's. They had several top tier models BMW had not (coupe versions of the S-Class, the SL, the G-Class, SLR, SLS...) And nowadays that is clearly gone. And this is due to the fact that the brand has been terribly mismanaged.

 

[Esp5]

Except it does not. Of course there is always going to be a public for limited editions. That's independent of the brand. Most of the buyers will never use said cars and have then locked up waiting for resale values to peak. But this has nothing to do with BMW's prestige having incrased in the last 10 years. BMW is what it is, nothing more. Their triumph is not having ruined the brand like Audi and MB have done.

The 8 Series was one of BMW attempts to move upmarket. And it failed. It failed with 2 doors, with no roof and with 4 doors. XM has followed the same steps. And if a BMW supercar came out, it would probably follow them as well. And it's simply cause BMW's pedegree is not there. It's the same case as the French brands failing in the 90s and 2000s each time they tried to launch a sedan competing with the 5er.

And this is being discussed in the MB thread cause the brand is suffering the same fate. At some point in time, MB's brand image was above BMW's. They had several top tier models BMW had not (coupe versions of the S-Class, the SL, the G-Class, SLR, SLS...) And nowadays that is clearly gone. And this is due to the fact that the brand has been terribly mismanaged.

If we start from the premise that prestige is something built over years of consistency and direction, and is composed of various factors, including something as esoteric as the perception of potential customers, then if there were a scale, BMW would be in a better position than it was 20 years ago due to the work done.
You mention products that perhaps weren't as successful as expected—"product issue" is the key phrase to me—but what about cases like the X7, which moved upmarket from the X5 and was a success?

The launch of the Alpina brand, the limited-edition supermodels at stratospheric prices that weren't made before—these are things that indicate the brand's confidence and market research are there.
I don't deny that things can go wrong; there isn't a history of widespread success at the top, only the iconic models that didn't sell as well, like the M1 or the Z8, remain to be admired. But in my opinion, I think we live in different times, and there are possibilities.

 

[Fastpaddy]

The best-selling G-Class is the G63. To think the Mini G will outperform it is a sign of true ignorance.

Youre looking at it wrong, and it supports my statement.

G63, just proves the uber rich want the top of the line model even with all the shortcomings that come with. It proves its bought as a statement vehicle.

 

[Fastpaddy]

T

I get what you're saying, but there are cheap(er) Ferraris, Rolex's, LVs and so on. These don't affect the desirability of the truly expensive and exclusive ones.

The Mini g will probably not be some bargain basement GLB-priced car anyway. It'll be cheaper than the big G, but it won't be cheap. Because it's running with it's own bespoke chassis.

And if you're a customer of the Big G, you'll still get that special feeling when you roll up alongside the little G and tower over it.

And the range rover is a pretty apt comparison because it is also a £200k SUV.

There is no cheaper LV, theres cheaper sub brands that dont look alike.

And similarly there is no cheap rolex. They start at 7k.

There is the rolex sub brand though, tudor, anyone can walk in and buy them and they are just crappier versions of the real thing, and so it has no desirability like a Rolex.

Now if tudor releases a pure gold deep sea copy and just in smaller form at 1/3 the price, would it sell? Probably. Would it makes the rolex version less desirable? For sure. And thats why rolex dont do it.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Now if tudor releases a pure gold deep sea copy and just in smaller form at 1/3 the price, would it sell? Probably. Would it makes the rolex version less desirable? For sure. And thats why rolex dont do it.

It wouldn't because its not a Rolex.

But my point was less that than, the existence of a 7k Rolex, doesn't make the 20k Rolex less desirable.

 

[leylandi]

Maybach SL facelift

 

[Rolf]

Gents what BS is this posted for the last few pages? This is not the sales section for BMW vs Mercedes.

You can move your argueing and sales figures to the dedicated thread.

Mercedes is filed a patent for tail lights to reduce the number of cables, sounds interesting.

Mercedes Wants To Kill The Dumbest Bit Of Modern Taillight Design
A new patent could finally eliminate trunk wiring tubes, helping reduce weight and simplify taillight repairs with a smarter, mechanical design.

• Mercedes wants to cut trunk wiring using spring-loaded contacts.
• Patent replaces flexible tailgate wires with mechanical switches.
• Taillight complexity added weight, wiring, and higher repair costs.

As vehicles grow more sophisticated, so too does the tangle of wiring that powers their features. Wiring harnesses have long been big, heavy, and complicated, and now they’re getting even more intricate as manufacturers load their latest models with more tech than ever.

To address this growing web of cables, Mercedes-Benz has come up with a novel approach that could simplify things around the tailgate or trunk area.

To reduce the number of wires running into these movable panels, Mercedes has filed a patent for a surprisingly analog solution. The design might not reinvent the wheel, but it could help shed some bulk and streamline certain electrical connections.

Rethinking the Rear End

The newly filed patent, first spotted by CarBuzz, was registered with Germany’s intellectual property office. It outlines a spring-loaded mechanical switch designed to sit inside movable panels like a tailgate. Rather than routing wires through flexible conduits, the switch would transfer power to rear lights through physical contact points.

Such a solution would be particularly useful for vehicles where the taillights move with the tailgate, necessitating longer wires to be run to them. Those flexible wiring covers seen near trunk hinges exist purely to accommodate this movement, adding cost, bulk, and additional failure points over time.

Included in the patent is a depiction of what looks to be the rear-end of the current GLS, which has taillights that split in two when the tailgate is open. In this case, the switch could send power from the outer sections of the light to the rest of the light. Shorter wiring paths could then feed into the switching hardware rather than looping through the tailgate itself.

An Old Trick in a New Context

Using spring-loaded contacts like this isn’t a novel idea and has been used for decades, albeit it isn’t frequently seen in the automotive space. It could work well, helping to save a small amount of weight and complexity by reducing the number of wires running into the tailgate.

The challenge lies in the environment. Tailgates tend to collect grime, especially on vehicles that see a lot of use in bad weather or off-road. Electrical contacts in these spots would need to be well protected and self-cleaning to remain reliable over time. If not, the whole system could fail with something as simple as a layer of dust.

No current Mercedes model uses switches like this, and just because the carmaker has this patent, that doesn’t mean any of its future vehicles will use such switches.

Still, the idea does align with Mercedes-Benz’s recent push toward more modular, repair-friendly components, an approach aimed at reducing waste by allowing individual elements to be serviced rather than replaced outright, including headlamps.

Mercedes Wants To Kill The Dumbest Bit Of Modern Taillight Design | Carscoops

A new patent could finally eliminate trunk wiring tubes, helping reduce weight and simplify taillight repairs with a smarter, mechanical design

www.carscoops.com