Hot! Mercedes-Benz, What's Next?

[Merc1]

Mercedes-Benz, What's Next? -

There seems to be a feeling here and on other sites that Mercedes has lost a lot of its luster. What does Mercedes need to regain their one once lofty position in the market, or have they lost that position at all?

I'm curious to know what people here think? It is their design, quality, engines, safety, what is lacking and how do they get their mojo back?

Suggestions?

How do you feel about the current state Mercedes-Benz is in? What is lacking, what are they doing wrong, or right?


M

 

[SKY]

Of course it has. MB has a lot of models which are the worst looking ones of their segment. The E-Class is the perfect example of this. The SL has never had such a doubtful design, the ML looks like a van, the dropping lines, the weird pic of the W205 C-Class with no camo, the lost of the lead in terms of the engines...

 

[michaelhutchence]

No way ! I really don't think that Mercedes models are the weakest or the ugliest in the line up. And I see some advantages of MB. Perhaps their design is not the best but I think that everybody must appreciate them for their imagination. They have the most different design in the line up inside and outside. Anyway this is my favourite car brand and for me it is not easy to choose a model if I want to buy something. I would buy S, CL, SL, CLS, E. At bmw I want only 5 or x5 and the only desirable audi for me its the A6.

 

[Merc1]

Of course it has. MB has a lot of models which are the worst looking ones of their segment. The E-Class is the perfect example of this. The SL has never had such a doubtful design, the ML looks like a van, the dropping lines, the weird pic of the W205 C-Class with no camo, the lost of the lead in terms of the engines...

What can they do to fix it? Engine wise what do you think they need?


M

 

[SKY]

What can they do to fix it? Engine wise what do you think they need?


M

Well, IMO, I´ve been seeing MB always behind the trend in the sector. They were not the first ones with the turbos, they don´t have a 300+ hp diesel engine when even Audi does, they are not on the 350+ hp diesel engine, etc. etc.

With MB everytime they launch a car, you have the feeling it does never has a highlight regarding the engines. And if they release a new engine, it´s always on par, or a step less than what the competitors have had for a few years.

I doubt anyone on this forum will ever say MB is not a top brand, but it´s hardly the leader it used to be.

 

[Merc1]

Well we know that, but I didn't want it to turn into a gripe/bash session, wanted to get opinions on what they should do.

M

 

[klier]

They need a strong, simple no-nonsense design language for the whole line-up for starters. I think MB cars need to be dressed up with nice wheels, AMG pack and whatever else to look pretty. Standard models look rather awkward sometimes.

 

[merc4]

Well, IMO, I´ve been seeing MB always behind the trend in the sector. They were not the first ones with the turbos, they don´t have a 300+ hp diesel engine when even Audi does, they are not on the 350+ hp diesel engine, etc. etc.

With MB everytime they launch a car, you have the feeling it does never has a highlight regarding the engines. And if they release a new engine, it´s always on par, or a step less than what the competitors have had for a few years.

I doubt anyone on this forum will ever say MB is not a top brand, but it´s hardly the leader it used to be.

Acctualy they were the first with the turbos, at least in the S600, but they did not use it for V6, they used it only for R4, first the compressor and then the turbo.

 

[K-A]

Firstly, cater to the appropriate market again. I feel like M-B is starting to design their cars to fill a role of the Fast & Furious crowd within the luxury segment, if that could even make sense. Short sighted designs and strategies which are looking to be less of a premium manufacturer and more like a mass-market one.

Be a design leader again, and by that I don't mean scribble nonsensical lines to try and look ultra-fad which will generate quick attention then date quickly. I want to see a monolithic, powerful, confident and GERMAN looking Benz again. Strong lines, connecting dots, an unmistakable presence, a clean and concise surface that sends a strong message of strength, simple beauty, harmony, and timelessness, and of course prestige. M-B is designing cars to look broken up, therefore M-B's today look stubbier and shorter than their competing counterparts. Audi's and BMW's with one long graceful line look elegant and long. M-B is trying to be "crazy different" but it's not having an elegant and "sprawled out" effect we like to see from long cars.

IMO be like Apple in the sense where if a product isn't working, cut it as quickly as possible, to not dilute and harm the brands ultimate cachet. Dilution is a dangerous thing for a high margin luxury brand when a lot of their models can't even be considered top-tier within their segments, not to mention when you have scars of future embarrassments like the R Class, the first A-Class, etc.

As an E-Class owner, I've gotten in plenty of arguments with 5-Series owners who say that the E-Class does NOTHING better. These days, although I still love my car, it's hard to find objective areas to prove otherwise.

Areas where I'd like to see improved: INTERIOR MATERIAL QUALITY. Aside from the S-Class/CL/and new SL, I think M-B models interiors aren't so refined and detailed as they used to be. Cold plastics, austere feelings, general "cheap" materials here and there. Though, they do feel durable as all hell, they just don't feel "warm".

I think M-B needs to figure out what they want to be in terms of driving style and go hard with it. They used to be the NO NONSENSE luxury driver. Now, they're trying to get a little "BMW handling" on us (BMW is going the other way, ironically, generating the same complaints but on the opposite end). I find my E-Class to be a confused ride. Soft on corners and smooth roads (so it floats), then it gets hard and extremely harsh over bumps. It does the wrong things at the wrong times. It should float and be soft over harsh roads, and get stiff and tight through turns, right now it does the opposite.

I think the engines are fine, personally. But the 7G Tronic transmission is a joke. My 2011 E now has the same "hiccup" that my W211 did, which had to go to the shop about 5 times before they finally changed the valve body. When it works well, it works well, but there are lots of inherent bugs. It could also be A LOT snappier on shifting, without sacrificing the smoothness.

The screen sizes don't bug me, but they could get bigger.

Fix the suspension creak/squeak/groans. Every M-B I've had has this characteristic and "old man car" sounding sound. Even my 2 brand new E's. I'm skinny as heck yet the car creaks/squeaks when I get in or out of it. Embarrassing.

TAKE THE HORN OFF OF THE ALARM! THIS STUPID COST CUTTING MEASURE MAKES OUR CARS SOUND LIKE CHEAP CHEVY RENTALS, WE SHOULDN'T GET SUCH A CRUDE GREETING WHEN WE SPEND PREMIUM DOLLARS.

Fortunately, for M-B, they have over 100 years of prestige to allow them tons of apologists who will look past current shortcomings, or even convince themselves that M-B is releasing their best products ever. I was one of these people, but I couldn't hold onto the lie.

Finally, I feel like participating in BMW message boards, and Porsche message boards is far more fun and enlightening. BMW enthusiasts seem to be far more product-driven, far more enthusiastic, they're even far more demanding and far more criticizing. I find M-B boards can be a bit clinical, i.e people just want the Star Car and aren't too crazy passionate about it to adore it endlessly or criticize it too much, just kind of chillaxed as compared to BMW and Porsche fans. That can be seen as a good or bad, but from my experiences, considering I'm obviously one of those crazy anal fans, I'd like to see M-B make products that attract the "Intellectual Enthusiast", rather than the "I just want a Benz" crowd. On the M-B boards, 90% of the Threads are about "rims" or lowering or changing out for a cheesy Star grille or something. On the BMW Boards, you have real deal, introspective enthusiast talks, some of it goes far more fanboy-ish than anything I've seen, but the passion in the core product is there.

 

[Giannis]

Interesting questiong Marcus, thanks for bringing it up by starting a new thread!

They need a strong, simple no-nonsense design language for the whole line-up for starters. I think MB cars need to be dressed up with nice wheels, AMG pack and whatever else to look pretty. Standard models look rather awkward sometimes.

I think I have to agree with klier. The problem is not in the details like the size of the screens or the horn off the alarm. It's not as if one will decide not to by an E-Class just for an extra inch that a 5er offers. It's stupid!

I find the problem to be with the design language. Right now, the MB line-up is a mix of simple teutonic lines as in the C and E-Class, and very soft, weird and funny lines as in the A and B-Class. Leaving the A and B aside, as they seem to target a totally different target group (design-wise), I'm focusing in the C and E model lines, sedans and coupes. They don't "scream" MB as the W211 or the W203 did. They somehow look out of place and overly complex. A base C-Class looks nowhere near an AMG pack one, which is a shame. If I don't want a shouty Merc, I have to end up with a bland one? Why? Where's the old elegance?

I don't think there are any quality or engine issues. MB is doing great in those fields. But they must do something about their design language, and the good old uniform or "one sausage different lengths" as many call it, is more than welcome, again!

 

[Merc1]

Interesting questiong Marcus, thanks for bringing it up by starting a new thread!





I think I have to agree with klier. The problem is not in the details like the size of the screens or the horn off the alarm. It's not as if one will decide not to by an E-Class just for an extra inch that a 5er offers. It's stupid!

I find the problem to be with the design language. Right now, the MB line-up is a mix of simple teutonic lines as in the C and E-Class, and very soft, weird and funny lines as in the A and B-Class. Leaving the A and B aside, as they seem to target a totally different target group (design-wise), I'm focusing in the C and E model lines, sedans and coupes. They don't "scream" MB as the W211 or the W203 did. They somehow look out of place and overly complex. A base C-Class looks nowhere near an AMG pack one, which is a shame. If I don't want a shouty Merc, I have to end up with a bland one? Why? Where's the old elegance?

I don't think there are any quality or engine issues. MB is doing great in those fields. But they must do something about their design language, and the good old uniform or "one sausage different lengths" as many call it, is more than welcome, again!

I agree with this.

M

 

[Giannis]

And I would like to add another thing. Older MBs age with grace. I would really love to own a W211 right now, and I'm flirting with the idea of buying a W202 and storing it away. They are awefully cheap these days, and it's such a great car. And it's 20 years old!

My point is that, I doubt the current C or E will look that good when the next generation or the one after that will come...

 

[K-A]

And I would like to add another thing. Older MBs age with grace. I would really love to own a W211 right now, and I'm flirting with the idea of buying a W202 and storing it away. They are awefully cheap these days, and it's such a great car. And it's 20 years old!

My point is that, I doubt the current C or E will look that good when the next generation or the one after that will come...

It's funny, I saw a pic of a W211 and I thought to myself "this really is a better looking car than the W212". Now, I'm not gonna make my "official" statement on that since the W212 is newer and more exciting to see to me, but will it age as well as a W211? That'll be a tough one, considering how trendy the W212 design idiom is or wants to be, how arresting it is in comparison, compared to the W211 which is so simple and just pure.

 

[Merc1]

IMO the last Benzes that will age gracefully are the current S/CL/C Classes and the previous SL. Maybe the E Convertible, but that's it. Oh and of course the SLS. The E sedan just isn't IMO. The new SL won't either.

The W211 is a better looking car than the current E. There is a E63 AMG (w211) parked right across from me all the time, beautiful car.

M

 

[K-A]

I think in 20 years the W212 will probably look older than the W211, as the W211 is just a simple, timeless design, and the W212 is so chalk-full of "today trends".

I've always thought, the front of a facelift W211 with AMG Package is one of the most beautiful fronts of all time. It looks like a Classic already, all organic shapes, strong and elegant with a "just right" dash of feminine grace.

IMO the current E Coupe will be one of the worst aging M-B's, just not a hit design, especially with that ultra bland and un-sexy rear. The "E" Vert IMO is even worse, as at least the Coupe has a pretty nice roofline, at least for such a compactly proportioned car (since it's really a C Class).

 

[tikipukapuko]

bring back those days

 

[Merc1]

So now we have the FL E-Class, what is next? CLA, I believe. Overall I think the E facelift is a good one, I mean the car needed a change IMO.

I simply can't wait to get to Detroit next month!!!


Where the hell are the E Coupe and Cabrio facelifts?


M

 

[HighestOfHigh]

My Thoughts -

Mercedes-Benz is fine just the way it is. They are trying something new and making their designs more aggressive. If the plan fails, I'm sure they will go back to the "safe" designs.

 

[-=Hot|Ice=-]

Mercedes-Benz won't knock off BMW to become the U.S.' best-selling luxury marque this year, but the Daimler-owned luxury car maker has bigger concerns – investors now value Mercedes-Benz at just half of what BMW is worth.

Daimler's total 42.2 billion euro market capitalization isn't far off from BMW's 45 billion euro market cap, but those figures don't tell the entire story. Daimler's market capitalization also includes its truck business, which is the largest in the world.
Daimler's truck business is valued at about 20 billion euros, meaning the company's Mercedes-Benz division is only worth 22 billion euros, or less than half the value of BMW. That could pose a significant problem for both Mercedes and its Chief Executive Officer Dieter Zetsche as the automaker has been slow to expand into new regions and new market segments.
“The market is saying that the prospects for Mercedes are much worse than for BMW,” Hans-Peter Wodniok, an analyst with Fairesearch, told Bloomberg. “The market’s always right. In terms of innovation, BMW is the leader.”
Mercedes has lagged the growth of rivals BMW and Audi in China, and has also been slow to move into new segments such as compact crossovers. Mercedes has also struggled to draw in a younger clientele.
Earlier this year Zetsche was forced to push back Mercedes' goal of achieving a 10 percent profit margin by 2013. The company estimates it will be at least 2014 before it meets that target.

Investors value Mercedes-Benz at just half of BMW

 

[K-A]

M-B being worth half of BMW is astonishing, and a true sign of the times.

Yes, this is why M-B designs are a mess.... Management is literally frantic at what's going on, and it shows.

Bring back the confidence, the strength through design, cut out the desperation literally shown through the vehicles surfaces and facelift changes, and design cars from the get-go that are BENCHMARKS (S-Class not included, as it is truly designed as the benchmark from the get-go), therefore eliminating constant revisions, which costs the company money, and makes them look disjointed, hence now being upstaged in terms of worth than BMW so heavily.