S-Class (W223) Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223) Facelift

[Serpens]

The M177 isn’t flexible at all, the 2500rpm figure for peak torque is bogus, there’s no torque under 2800-3000rpm.

The M278 4.7 pulled from 1800rpm like a train.

This is a huge difference.

Easy on the exaggeration, saying there's no torque below 2800rpm is just . The M177 does behave more like a NA motor (and is better for it imo) but there's plenty of ways to tune the M177 to behave differently or supplement it with hybridization or e-turbos. There's more than a few tricks Mercedes can use here without needing to go up in displacement.

 

[Swissbob]

The 4.0L and 5.5L V8s sound different mostly because of their completely different configurations rather than their displacement size. Firing order, exhaust plumbing, all of that.

The 4.7L V8 makes little sense given all it does is give Mercedes less flexibility to use the engine worldwide. It doesn't matter if the USA if the primary market if the 4.0L V8 can deliver the power with its current displacement. Americans aren't that hung up on displacement. The 6.3L V8 is a nonstarter at this point. Let's be serious for a minute - can you imagine MB debuting that motor now? The moaning about the lack of low end torque would be endless.

6.3L V8 with 2 Turbos of course, because otherwise people would moan about the lack of low end torque as you said.

Americans AFAIK want low end torque, that’s why Ford and Dodge use superchargers instead of turbos.

 

[Serpens]

6.3L V8 with 2 Turbos of course, because otherwise people would moan about the lack of low end torque as you said.

Americans AFAIK want low end torque, that’s why Ford and Dodge use superchargers instead of turbos.

Yes we like low end torque but that doesn't make us allergic to turbocharging, as evidenced by the fastest Chevrolet Corvette variant available.

In any event, a 6.3L V8TT makes zero sense given it wouldn't be saleable anywhere else but here. A pipe dream at best. Or should I say "Oh yes it's coming right up after the next-gen V12"

 

[martinbo]

Exactly. My dealer had both , he had to move them to another parking spot.

That’s why I had the opportunity to hear them.

Right, now that we're talking specifically.

You're comparing two completely different turbocharged V8 engines:
C217 (pre-facelift) S500 - M278 4.7 litre bi-turbo V8 with turbos mounted in the traditional outboard position
C217 (facelift) S560 - M176 4.0 litre bi-turbo V8 with hot-vee turbocharger location

These two engines are so significantly different in terms of their configuration that to look at displacement as the differentiator for engine sound is to look at the least most significant difference.

 

[Swissbob]

Easy on the exaggeration, saying there's no torque below 2800rpm is just . The M177 does behave more like a NA motor (and is better for it imo) but there's plenty of ways to tune the M177 to behave differently or supplement it with hybridization or e-turbos. There's more than a few tricks Mercedes can use here without needing to go up in displacement.

Compared to that what happens after 2800rpm, of course.

It behaves like a very sporty N/A motor, I agree on that one.

But it’s power curve works well with a E63 or GT, but in a
G63 or GLS I expect a different kind of engine.

The M275/M279 is a completely different animal in this regard.

Mild hybrid helps, I agree.

Given the choice I’d always prefer the M278 to the M177.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

Yes we like low end torque but that doesn't make us allergic to turbocharging, as evidenced by the fastest Chevrolet Corvette variant available.

In any event, a 6.3L V8TT makes zero sense given it wouldn't be saleable anywhere else but here. A pipe dream at best. Or should I say "Oh yes it's coming right up after the next-gen V12"

Tbh, if we're getting to 6 Litres, I would rather a V12, than a V8. Far smoother.

 

[Dopebouy]

6.3L V8 with 2 Turbos of course, because otherwise people would moan about the lack of low end torque as you said.

Americans AFAIK want low end torque, that’s why Ford and Dodge use superchargers instead of turbos.

A TT 6.3L DOHC V8 with 8.6:1 compression with a Closed-Deck Block, paired with 48v Mild-Hybrid would be crazy in today’s date. It’s what they should invest in infact

 

[Swissbob]

A TT 6.3L DOHC V8 with 8.6:1 compression with a Closed-Deck Block, paired with 48v Mild-Hybrid would be crazy in today’s date. It’s what they should invest in infact

This is exactly what I’d develop. (However I’d increase the CR to 9.5:1)

1000Nm (738lb-Ft) at 1500rpm which it keeps until 5000rpm and 680hp at 6000rpm.

This would be the perfect engine.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

This is exactly what I’d develop. (However I’d increase the CR to 9.5:1)

1000Nm (738lb-Ft) at 1500rpm which it keeps until 5000rpm and 680hp at 6000rpm.

This would be the perfect engine.

They already make the M279 which is effectively this, just with a bit less power and torque.

What's the point of spending the money developing an engine like this for a single market?