S-Class (W223) Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223) Facelift

[Dopebouy]

@Swissbob , You said something about a 4.7L V8…
Doesn’t the sound of this raise eyebrows a little?

CarspotterJeroen on Instagram: "Mercedes-AMG S63 Facelift spied near the Nürburgring! #MercedesBenz #AMG #s63 #s63amg #spyshot"

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[Swissbob]

@Swissbob , You said something about a 4.7L V8…
Doesn’t the sound of this raise eyebrows a little?

Might be that engine, very deep rumble.

Sounds far better than the predecessor.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

So what, this new 4.7L V8 is going to replace the M177 Evo in AMGs? But the M177 Evo will now be relegated to non AMGs?

What's the plan here?

 

[Swissbob]

So what, this new 4.7L V8 is going to replace the M177 Evo in AMGs? But the M177 Evo will now be relegated to non AMGs?

What's the plan here?

I guess we have to wait a few months for more informations.

But it’s a possibility I guess.

 

[Swissbob]

It’s interesting that they expect 95% to be sold in the USA, this means that China doesn’t matter, that’s the only market where the 4L limit makes sense.

They could theoretically develop an even bigger engine for the USA, 5.5L or even 6.2L, nothing has been confirmed yet.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I mean there's been so little information apart from yourself quoting someone form another Mercedes Forum, so I just find it all a bit hard to believe.

A 4.7L would help provide that extra bit of low-down torque, I guess.

 

[Swissbob]

As I said the 4.7 has been mentioned in the German magazine auto motor sport as well.

They sit in Stuttgart BTW.

The 95% US marketshare of the new CLE63, was the number which , because for the US market the 4L doesn’t matter.

In fact bigger is better, and bigger V8 engines usually sound better.

 

[martinbo]

I’d like to hear how a bi-turbo 4.7 litre V8 would sound different to a bi-turbo 4.0 V8 with the same crank plane and forced induction config. The difference in displacement is essentially irrelevant; inlet and exhaust system changes would have a far greater effect on sound difference. A 4.7 litre V8 to supplement the current 4.0 makes absolutely zero sense in this day and age.

 

[Merc1]

I believe it is simply gross misinformation at best. What I do believe is that whatever V8 the S63, GLE63 and GLS63 get, it will have about 650hp. The GLE53 now makes 577hp, there has to be some daylight between that figure and the GLE63's output to make it make sense. Maybe even 675hp. Prediction: a "base" S63 with 650-675hp and if they continue with the e-performance hybrid, it will have 900hp, if they revise it for the FL. That's a lot of if's tho. S63 AMG and S63e AMG I believe.

M

 

[Merc1]

I’d like to hear how a bi-turbo 4.7 litre V8 would sound different to a bi-turbo 4.0 V8 with the same crank plane and forced induction config. The difference in displacement is essentially irrelevant; inlet and exhaust system changes would have a far greater effect on sound difference. A 4.7 litre V8 to supplement the current 4.0 makes absolutely zero sense in this day and age.

The G63 already grumbles, even at idle it sounds like a large displacement V8. I will believe a 4.7L V8 when they actually announce it. There is no such engine IMO.

M

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I’d like to hear how a bi-turbo 4.7 litre V8 would sound different to a bi-turbo 4.0 V8 with the same crank plane and forced induction config. The difference in displacement is essentially irrelevant; inlet and exhaust system changes would have a far greater effect on sound difference. A 4.7 litre V8 to supplement the current 4.0 makes absolutely zero sense in this day and age.

I think they're trying to suggest that it doesn't sound like a flat plane V8.
But, yeah. My thoughts are exactly that. Why would they bother making yet another new V8 design, when their current one is already extremely good.

 

[Swissbob]

I’d like to hear how a bi-turbo 4.7 litre V8 would sound different to a bi-turbo 4.0 V8 with the same crank plane and forced induction config. The difference in displacement is essentially irrelevant; inlet and exhaust system changes would have a far greater effect on sound difference. A 4.7 litre V8 to supplement the current 4.0 makes absolutely zero sense in this day and age.

If you hear them in a short period of time you can hear the difference.

S500 and S560 convertible sound different even with closed valves.

But the difference between the 4L and 4.7L is much smaller than the difference between the 4L and the 5.5L AMGs.

I think the 4.7L could become the successor of the 4L.

If somebody would ask me what do to, I’d personally develop a 6.3L V8 because these customers don’t care about the consumption anyway.

 

[martinbo]

If you hear them in a short period of time you can hear the difference.

S500 and S560 convertible sound different even with closed valves.

But the difference between the 4L and 4.7L is much smaller than the difference between the 4L and the 5.5L AMGs.

I think the 4.7L could become the successor of the 4L.

If somebody would ask me what do to, I’d personally develop a 6.3L V8 because these customers don’t care about the consumption anyway.

I'm not understanding what you're saying because you're not being specific enough.
What generation or model year of S500 vs S560 are referring to?

 

[Swissbob]

I'm not understanding what you're saying because you're not being specific enough.
What generation or model year of S500 vs S560 are referring to?

A/C217, my dealer had both. 500 and 560, the noise level is identical but the 500 sounds deeper.
That’s the reason why I know this.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

I just want to see some receipts.
A few bits of hearsay, aren't enough. The M177 is a very flexible and potent powerplant. 730hp in LS2 variant, and 800+ from Aston Martin's tweaks, and tuners can get over a 1000 out of it.
Not sure what the value would be from a customer pov would be for a larger displacement motor. Yes maybe they could get peak torque from 2000rpm instead of 2500rpm, but most people won't really notice or care.

 

[martinbo]

A/C217, my dealer had both. 500 and 560, the noise level is identical but the 500 sounds deeper.
That’s the reason why I know this.

Still not following. I'm not a Mercedes Benz expert so bear with me when I ask...
Are you talking about C217 S500 (pre-facelift) vs C217 S560 (facelift)?

 

[Swissbob]

Still not following. I'm not a Mercedes Benz expert so bear with me when I ask...
Are you talking about C217 S500 (pre-facelift) vs C217 S560 (facelift)?

Exactly. My dealer had both , he had to move them to another parking spot.

That’s why I had the opportunity to hear them.

 

[Swissbob]

I just want to see some receipts.
A few bits of hearsay, aren't enough. The M177 is a very flexible and potent powerplant. 730hp in LS2 variant, and 800+ from Aston Martin's tweaks, and tuners can get over a 1000 out of it.
Not sure what the value would be from a customer pov would be for a larger displacement motor. Yes maybe they could get peak torque from 2000rpm instead of 2500rpm, but most people won't really notice or care.

The M177 isn’t flexible at all, the 2500rpm figure for peak torque is bogus, there’s no torque under 2800-3000rpm.

The M278 4.7 pulled from 1800rpm like a train.

This is a huge difference.

 

[Serpens]

If you hear them in a short period of time you can hear the difference.

S500 and S560 convertible sound different even with closed valves.

But the difference between the 4L and 4.7L is much smaller than the difference between the 4L and the 5.5L AMGs.

I think the 4.7L could become the successor of the 4L.

If somebody would ask me what do to, I’d personally develop a 6.3L V8 because these customers don’t care about the consumption anyway.

The 4.0L and 5.5L V8s sound different mostly because of their completely different configurations rather than their displacement size. Firing order, exhaust plumbing, all of that.

The 4.7L V8 makes little sense given all it does is give Mercedes less flexibility to use the engine worldwide. It doesn't matter if the USA if the primary market if the 4.0L V8 can deliver the power with its current displacement. Americans aren't that hung up on displacement. The 6.3L V8 is a nonstarter at this point. Let's be serious for a minute - can you imagine MB debuting that motor now? The moaning about the lack of low end torque would be endless.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

The M177 isn’t flexible at all, the 2500rpm figure for peak torque is bogus, there’s no torque under 2800-3000rpm.

The M278 4.7 pulled from 1800rpm like a train.

This is a huge difference.

Half of this problem can be solved with newer turbocharging methods. I.e the electrical supercharger they use on the M256 which allows it to have a pretty flat torque band, despite being only 3L. Or the e-turbo set-up Porsche uses on their latest 992.2 Turbo S. Plus with a little mild hybrid assist.

Also, according to spec, the M178 LS2 in the AMG GT Track series can produce 850Nm of torque from 2000-6000rpm. Surely that is a wide enough torque band.