S-Class (W223) Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223) Facelift

[GTA45E]

Wow, nothing new on the FL S Class yet two weeks worth of alerts on this thread. Sad.

So true.
This thread has been steered off topic numerous times with debates that do not belong here, and have nothing to do with the face/lift S-Class.
Genesis' arguments need to be moved to the internal combustion section.

 

[AbsoluteUnit]

You still don't understand.
I wasn't just talking about the 10 year old Genesis, but I can also safely say that the 10 year old G90 has MUCH LESS problems than the 10 year old S-Class.

Anyway, I was also talking about the CURRENT G90 and I wrote to you loud and clear that it is much better assembled and made than the current W223.
How do I know that? Because I've tested and sold many of both, Mercedes is shamefully assembled.

It's true, Genesis is not Lexus.
- it's a brand that has much nicer cars than Lexus (obviously, when the chief designer is a former chief designer at Bentley)
- it's a brand whose models drive much better than Lexus (obviously, when Bierman, the former head of M gmbh, was involved in most of their development)
- it's a brand whose interior is 10x more refined than current Lexuses (much more refined materials, much more attention to detail, better solutions etc.)

WHAT’S NEXT FOR GENESIS CABINS? OUR INTERIOR DESIGN CHIEF EXPLAINS

SEOUL, April 24, 2025 — The career transition from exterior to interior automotive design was quite a simple one for Jaeho Oh. He was captivated by the “whole different world of creativity” found in the intricate details within the cabin, which quickly fueled his desire to make a mark in the...

newsroom.genesis.com

At Genesis, every vehicle has a 5-year warranty, but you can extend it to 10 years.
Mercedes has a 1-year warranty. This says more than a thousand words about who trusts their products more.
Once again: we've been driving Mercedes at home since 1974, I've owned practically every model, I've worked at Mercedes for more years, I've co-founded Mercedes clubs - it's hard to find a bigger fan of this brand.
But as hard as it is for me, I have to admit that Mercedes is currently a crappy car and I would never buy one in my life. Not a chance. The older ones - everytime (thats why i own an S600 and a CL63) , but the current ones - never ever.

Genesis on the other side has just introduced the most beautiful coupe I have seen in the last 10 years or more...especially the interior which is beautiful, interwoven with a variety of details
It looks like a futuristic Bentley with a interior craftmanship, which Mercedes can only dream of.
Yes, it is a concept, but in all likelihood it will be very similar to it and will also go into series production.

As nice as this looks, still doesn't look as good as the C217.

 

[mr.Mister]

As nice as this looks, still doesn't look as good as the C217.

yes and no.... for example, the too much Renault Laguna coupe rear of the C217 is less beautiful then the ''modernized C219'' rear of the Genesis...

also the interior of the C217...its beautiful but materials on some parts are not on that price level they should be... and so on and so on
just look at the illuminated wood inlays in the Genesis, crazy, love it.

but yes, the C217 for me personaly is the most beautiful modern Mercedes of all time.

Is it more beautiful then the new G90 grand coupe? i dont think so...i think that the G90 has even less lines, looks even more clean and more timeless...from the side it has some C140 vibes for my opinion.

 

[mr.Mister]

So true.
This thread has been steered off topic numerous times with debates that do not belong here, and have nothing to do with the face/lift S-Class.
Genesis' arguments need to be moved to the internal combustion section.

you are right....but only to a certain extent
we are still mostly on topic:
- we criticize the new graphics in the head/front-lights of the mopf model
- we criticize the poor finish and workmanship, like the choice of materials in the previous w223 and hope it will be better in the mopf

If I give a comparison of another brand in between, as an example of how it should be, that doesn't mean I'm not sticking to the topic of the S-Class, because I'm making the comparison with the S-Class.

 

[Merc1]

You still don't understand.
I wasn't just talking about the 10 year old Genesis, but I can also safely say that the 10 year old G90 has MUCH LESS problems than the 10 year old S-Class.

Anyway, I was also talking about the CURRENT G90 and I wrote to you loud and clear that it is much better assembled and made than the current W223.
How do I know that? Because I've tested and sold many of both, Mercedes is shamefully assembled.

It's true, Genesis is not Lexus.
- it's a brand that has much nicer cars than Lexus (obviously, when the chief designer is a former chief designer at Bentley)
- it's a brand whose models drive much better than Lexus (obviously, when Bierman, the former head of M gmbh, was involved in most of their development)
- it's a brand whose interior is 10x more refined than current Lexuses (much more refined materials, much more attention to detail, better solutions etc.)

WHAT’S NEXT FOR GENESIS CABINS? OUR INTERIOR DESIGN CHIEF EXPLAINS

SEOUL, April 24, 2025 — The career transition from exterior to interior automotive design was quite a simple one for Jaeho Oh. He was captivated by the “whole different world of creativity” found in the intricate details within the cabin, which quickly fueled his desire to make a mark in the...

newsroom.genesis.com

At Genesis, every vehicle has a 5-year warranty, but you can extend it to 10 years.
Mercedes has a 1-year warranty. This says more than a thousand words about who trusts their products more.
Once again: we've been driving Mercedes at home since 1974, I've owned practically every model, I've worked at Mercedes for more years, I've co-founded Mercedes clubs - it's hard to find a bigger fan of this brand.
But as hard as it is for me, I have to admit that Mercedes is currently a crappy car and I would never buy one in my life. Not a chance. The older ones - everytime (thats why i own an S600 and a CL63) , but the current ones - never ever.

Genesis on the other side has just introduced the most beautiful coupe I have seen in the last 10 years or more...especially the interior which is beautiful, interwoven with a variety of details
It looks like a futuristic Bentley with a interior craftmanship, which Mercedes can only dream of.
Yes, it is a concept, but in all likelihood it will be very similar to it and will also go into series production.

No you don't seem to understand that you're the only one arguing this and that no one gives a shit about a 10 year Genesis G90 as it doesn't prove anything about their cars of TODAY. Not sure what you aren't getting. It's irrelevant.

"Anyway, I was also talking about the CURRENT G90 and I wrote to you loud and clear that it is much better assembled and made than the current W223. How do I know that? Because I've tested and sold many of both, Mercedes is shamefully assembled."

This is your opinion, and you're not the only one that has driven these cars. You seem to be fooled into thinking flashier materials means better assembly it isn't. When the current Genesis problems are 10 years old then you say how they've held up. Funny how after the recalls are posted for the current G90, you run back how it's put together when the car has other issues. Typical.

When I said that Genesis was NOT LEXUS I was speaking from a reliability stand point, NOT design and desirability. Now you're just rambling on and on about things that were not being debated. The point is here is that nothing you've shown here proves that Genesis cars are more durable than Mercedes. A 10 year old Equus/G90 doesn't mean shit. It's not even related to the current car which has it's own issues already.

I've owned Mercedes' before and I still have a W140 S500 so again, so you aren't telling me anything. Is it that you can't read or process this? I clearly said that I know that Mercedes has problems, or are you just one of those people that have to keep repeating shit for no reason? I wasn't arguing that Mercedes didn't have problems. I said that Genesis isn't a better vehicle based on some durability claim on a 10 year of vehicle that isn't even related to the ones that they sell today. Those same vehicles that they sell today that rank BELOW average in quality and have been recalled just like anything else. It's a stupid argument.

Genesis hasn't introduced a coupe. They brought out a concept. When and if it actually winds up in a showroom, you will have point. You start out with a claim about a 10 year old car that doesn't mean shit and now you're talking about warranties, concepts and other irrelevant nonsense.

M

 

[GTA45E]

- we criticize the new graphics in the head/front-lights of the mopf model
- we criticize the poor finish and workmanship, like the choice of materials in the previous w223 and hope it will be better in the mopf

If I give a comparison of another brand in between, as an example of how it should be, that doesn't mean I'm not sticking to the topic of the S-Class, because I'm making the comparison with the S-Class.

Are you looking to become Mercedes' CEO and tell them the design direction and qualities they should adopt by your personal definition?
You have clearly taken over this thread. We might as well call it the Mr.Mister Mercedes-Class facelift recommendation thread.

 

[Serpens]

Please mods clean up this thread. This Genesis discussion belongs in internal combustion.

@Matski

 

[mr.Mister]

No you don't seem to understand that you're the only one arguing this and that no one gives a shit about a 10 year Genesis G90 as it doesn't prove anything about their cars of TODAY. Not sure what you aren't getting. It's irrelevant.

"Anyway, I was also talking about the CURRENT G90 and I wrote to you loud and clear that it is much better assembled and made than the current W223. How do I know that? Because I've tested and sold many of both, Mercedes is shamefully assembled."

This is your opinion, and you're not the only one that has driven these cars. You seem to be fooled into thinking flashier materials means better assembly it isn't. When the current Genesis problems are 10 years old then you say how they've held up. Funny how after the recalls are posted for the current G90, you run back how it's put together when the car has other issues. Typical.

When I said that Genesis was NOT LEXUS I was speaking from a reliability stand point, NOT design and desirability. Now you're just rambling on and on about things that were not being debated. The point is here is that nothing you've shown here proves that Genesis cars are more durable than Mercedes. A 10 year old Equus/G90 doesn't mean shit. It's not even related to the current car which has it's own issues already.

I've owned Mercedes' before and I still have a W140 S500 so again, so you aren't telling me anything. Is it that you can't read or process this? I clearly said that I know that Mercedes has problems, or are you just one of those people that have to keep repeating shit for no reason? I wasn't arguing that Mercedes didn't have problems. I said that Genesis isn't a better vehicle based on some durability claim on a 10 year of vehicle that isn't even related to the ones that they sell today. Those same vehicles that they sell today that rank BELOW average in quality and have been recalled just like anything else. It's a stupid argument.

Genesis hasn't introduced a coupe. They brought out a concept. When and if it actually winds up in a showroom, you will have point. You start out with a claim about a 10 year old car that doesn't mean shit and now you're talking about warranties, concepts and other irrelevant nonsense.

M

You're mixing apples and oranges.

I'm writing about 2 comparisons:
1.) About the 10-year-old G90 and the 10-year-old S-Class.
Result: The G90 had significantly fewer problems and recalls than the S-Class and thats a proovable fact.

2.) About the current G90 and the current W223.
Result: again, the G90 had significantly fewer problems and recalls than the S-Class.
I'm a member of the S-Class community in Germany, I can link you to countless posts from W223 owners who write on a daily basis about problems, issues and even situations where even the official Mercedes-Benz service was unable to find the fault.
So YES, the Genesis G90 is clearly a BETTER-made car, even if you stand on your eyelashes and cry 10x more than you already do and you mean to continue replicating in novel length.

3.) Regarding recalls: the recalls listed in the German link I attached are only for Mercedes PASSENGER vehicles and are in 1st place for the most recalls in 2023 and 2024 - so, as I say, Mercedes is crap! No, as you say it has problems and issues, no, Mercedes has become total crap! Do you understand? CRAP!

4.) You obviously don't know much about cars.
Better materials also mean longer lifespan. It's sad that you don't even know the basics of this.
The materials in the new G90 are much better and more durable than the materials in the W223. Just look at the leather on the driver's seat, how it is already wrinkled or cracked in most cases after 50,000 km - something that used to not even happen after 200,000 km. Not to mention how the dashboard creaks, how the screens move, the plastic for adjusting the seats, etc. the W223 is a shame for this brand and cant in no situation held up with the new G90.

 

[mr.Mister]

Are you looking to become Mercedes' CEO and tell them the design direction and qualities they should adopt by your personal definition?
You have clearly taken over this thread. We might as well call it the Mr.Mister Mercedes-Class facelift recommendation thread.

Why?
Shouldn't we talk about what's bothering us in a topic related to mofp w223?
Should we talk about your mom instead, so you'll be happy?
WTF??

 

[Serpens]

Why?
Shouldn't we talk about what's bothering us in a topic related to mofp w223?
Should we talk about your mom instead, so you'll be happy?
WTF??

You're not even really talking about the mofp W223. You've posted a large amount of times about the Genesis G90 in comparison to the current W223, about the Lexus LS in comparison to the current W223, the styling and build quality of the current W223, and reliability of the current W223.

Oh, you also started this most recent discussion when you posted about what you would do for the facelift car. Very little about the actual facelift car really.

 

[mr.Mister]

You're not even really talking about the mofp W223. You've posted a large amount of times about the Genesis G90 in comparison to the current W223, about the Lexus LS in comparison to the current W223, the styling and build quality of the current W223, and reliability of the current W223.

Very little about the facelift car really.

it was about linking the topic
because I mentioned that I hope the mopf will have better quality, I added a comparison of vehicles that are better quality - shouldn't I??
same as for the design, I stated that it was disappointing and supported it with arguments

if anyone is bothered, they should delete the topic
but then this is no longer a debate, we can only comment on the new lights and the new cockpit with new buttons on the steering wheel....thats all

 

[SKY]

Jeez… Am I the only one who does not give a F about all this Genesis discussion?

 

[Merc1]

You're mixing apples and oranges.

I'm writing about 2 comparisons:
1.) About the 10-year-old G90 and the 10-year-old S-Class.
Result: The G90 had significantly fewer problems and recalls than the S-Class and thats a proovable fact.

2.) About the current G90 and the current W223.
Result: again, the G90 had significantly fewer problems and recalls than the S-Class.
I'm a member of the S-Class community in Germany, I can link you to countless posts from W223 owners who write on a daily basis about problems, issues and even situations where even the official Mercedes-Benz service was unable to find the fault.
So YES, the Genesis G90 is clearly a BETTER-made car, even if you stand on your eyelashes and cry 10x more than you already do and you mean to continue replicating in novel length.

3.) Regarding recalls: the recalls listed in the German link I attached are only for Mercedes PASSENGER vehicles and are in 1st place for the most recalls in 2023 and 2024 - so, as I say, Mercedes is crap! No, as you say it has problems and issues, no, Mercedes has become total crap! Do you understand? CRAP!

4.) You obviously don't know much about cars.
Better materials also mean longer lifespan. It's sad that you don't even know the basics of this.
The materials in the new G90 are much better and more durable than the materials in the W223. Just look at the leather on the driver's seat, how it is already wrinkled or cracked in most cases after 50,000 km - something that used to not even happen after 200,000 km. Not to mention how the dashboard creaks, how the screens move, the plastic for adjusting the seats, etc. the W223 is a shame for this brand and cant in no situation held up with the new G90.

1. A 10 year old Genesis is irrelevant to anything they make today so you don’t have a relevant point here. Result: total irrelevance. You’re arguing with yourself.

2. The G90 has had its problems here just like the W223. I’m a member of the MB community here so again you aren’t telling me anything. The G90 has problems just like the S does and pointing out who has less is really silly at this point when neither car is perfect. It’s clear as day that Genesis’ newest products have issues also. CR describes their reliability as “hit or miss” The G90 has not proven to be a better made product. Your link don’t mean shit because anyone can link horror stories about any car on the market. You don’t know a thing about Hyundai if you think they are some paragon of service reliability. Repeating it doesn’t make it so.

Genesis owners here in the USA are sick and tired of shit service out of the back of Hyundai dealerships who can’t seem to fix anything as promised. I can’t believe that a functional person believes that a dealer who can’t find a fault is unique to Mercedes or any brand.

3. Going by the recalls that Genesis has here they’re also crap. Fires, exploding seat belt tensioners, engine and electrical issues. How do you say crap in Korean?

4. Nope. That does not automatically mean longevity. Toyota regularly assembles cars from cheap materials and they last forever. There is nothing proven about Genesis current products to suggest how long they will last. The current G90 hasn’t been around long enough to bare any of this out. Whats sad is that you keep making this stupid argument with no proof of anything.

M

 

[mr.Mister]

1. A 10 year old Genesis is irrelevant to anything they make today so you don’t have a relevant point here. Result: total irrelevance. You’re arguing with yourself.

2. The G90 has had its problems here just like the W223. I’m a member of the MB community here so again you aren’t telling me anything. The G90 has problems just like the S does and pointing out who has less is really silly at this point when neither car is perfect. It’s clear as day that Genesis’ newest products have issues also. CR describes their reliability as “hit or miss” The G90 had not proven to be a better made product. Your link don’t mean shit because anyone can link horror stories about any car on the market. You don’t know shit about Hyundai if you think they are some paragon of service reliability. Repeating it doesn’t make it so.

Genesis owners here in the USA are sick and tired of shit service out of the back of Hyundai dealerships who can’t seem to fix anything as promised. I can’t believe that a functional person believes that a dealer who can’t find a fault is unique to Mercedes or any brand.

3. Going by the recalls that Genesis has here they’re also crap. Fires, exploding seat belt tensioners, engine and electrical issues. How do you say crap in Korean?

4. Nope. That does not automatically mean longevity. Toyota regularly assembles cars from cheap materials and they last forever. There is nothing proven about Genesis current products to suggest how long they will last. The current G90 hasn’t been around long enough to bare any of this out. Whats sad is that you keep making this stupid argument with no proof of anything.

M

are you really that stupid or are you just pretending?
I'm writing about BOTH cases: used and new!
And yes, only a 10-year-old car says something about its durability. And if someone wants to buy a 10-year-old G90 or a 10-year-old W222, they will encounter much fewer problems and issues with the G90.
Do you understand now? Should I draw it for you? Translate it?

I'm not writing about just one case where even the official repairman couldn't find the problem, but I'm writing that there are a lot of these and that you have German forums full of W223 owners complaining about the above-average poor quality of these vehicles.

The current G90 has NO problems. Especially compared to the W223, which is crap.

My link doesnt mean shit? buwahaha.... sure boomer
=> https://www.mercedes-fans.de/magazi...mercedes-ist-schon-wieder-europameister.21964

''The best – or what? Mercedes is European Recall Champion''

Better materials will always mean longer life. If you are so stupid that you don't understand that if the leather is better and thicker, it will last longer than thinner and lower quality.
Comparing Toyota's durability in terms of mechanics with materials is stupid to the end and shows that you really don't understand anything.

 

[Rolf]

Gees guys this is getting out of hand with BS Genesis discussions.

Mods please can you clean this thread, Every time we get notifications then we see this discussion that is not related at all to the FL W223 S-class.

 

[SKY]

Btw, wasn’t this guy’s current avatar used by another user who was banned? Is this another one of those cases were a weird individual gets fixated with the forum and keeps coming back and spreading nonsense over and over?

 

[SCOTT27]

No one is swapping their S-Klasse for a Genesis!

 

[Merc1]

are you really that stupid or are you just pretending?
I'm writing about BOTH cases: used and new!
And yes, only a 10-year-old car says something about its durability. And if someone wants to buy a 10-year-old G90 or a 10-year-old W222, they will encounter much fewer problems and issues with the G90.
Do you understand now? Should I draw it for you? Translate it?

I'm not writing about just one case where even the official repairman couldn't find the problem, but I'm writing that there are a lot of these and that you have German forums full of W223 owners complaining about the above-average poor quality of these vehicles.

The current G90 has NO problems. Especially compared to the W223, which is crap.

My link doesnt mean shit? buwahaha.... sure boomer
=> https://www.mercedes-fans.de/magazi...mercedes-ist-schon-wieder-europameister.21964

''The best – or what? Mercedes is European Recall Champion''

Better materials will always mean longer life. If you are so stupid that you don't understand that if the leather is better and thicker, it will last longer than thinner and lower quality.
Comparing Toyota's durability in terms of mechanics with materials is stupid to the end and shows that you really don't understand anything.

Are you like retarded or something? What car knowledgeable person is buying a 10 year old European car of any brand expecting it to be more reliable or perfect vs any Asian car? Try to process this. No one is. No a 10 year old Genesis that is not mechanically related and much simpler to their current products does not say anything about their current products longevity or quality. It’s specious.

The current G90 has no problems is also bullshit. It has been recalled for several things as I showed you in previous posts. Are you too stupid to read it?

I mentioned Toyota because they make cars from cheap materials that last. I didn’t mention their mechanical longevity. This is proven by any study and real world experience. Including their cheap interiors and again NO current generation G90 has been around long enough to prove that its materials last longer. You posted another link in German. Doesn’t mean shit to me.



M

 

[martinbo]

Btw, wasn’t this guy’s current avatar used by another user who was banned?

Yes - Sonder. Guess what: IP address match checks out too.

 

[mr.Mister]

No one is swapping their S-Klasse for a Genesis!

I would and i drive my 7th S-Class now