S-Class (W223) Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W223) Facelift 2024

[Merc1]

How did you come to this conclusion? Besides the EQ cars, that are being phased out, which Benzes are in design crisis?

Yeah I keep reading this too and wondering why? Like you said outside of the EQ models, where is the crisis?

M

 

[Matski]

How did you come to this conclusion? Besides the EQ cars, that are being phased out, which Benzes are in design crisis?

G-Wag set a design ethos that said you keep reducing until things are just right (this is what Sensual Purity was - G-Wag literally wrote a book to explain it). For one generation that made sense, but after that there was no design language to reduce... anything that Mercedes did from then on had to be contrary to G-Wag's prevailing Sensual Purity idea, it's a stylistic dead end that they applied top to bottom for two generations - and the same guy is still in charge - does it make for ugly cars... no. Does it make for boring cars... yes. Nothing Mercedes is doing looks new, nothing looks different between -A and -S (with the exception of Maybe the actual G-Wagon).

Audi had exactly the same issue, they made everything look smart in the early 2000's-10's, then they ran out of ideas, they hadn't expanded their design language in any way... they made everything look the same, and ever since then they've been on the downward slide unable to find a look that works for them - trying to tweak what they had - like a cat-walk model's slide into face-lifts, botox and lip filler.

Much as the the same old trite criticism of what BMW has done for the last ten years or so may or may not be valid, they have (recently), not reversed themselves into a single look across the brand, for multiple generations (NK styling may be a problem, but so far, we only have one NK model to go from). The 3-er doesn't look like a 5-er, and the 5-er doesn't look like a 7-er etc.. The fanboi favourite Mercedes SL now has the face of the bottom rung A-Class... it's an unfunny joke that those who shit their pants as soon as someone says something bad in the S-Class thread - don't get.

Mercedes ran out of ideas, that's why the sacred cow looks like the grocery delivery van, and the SL looks entry level.

Mercedes need a design director that has the 'stones to do more than one thing.

 

[Merc1]

So no crisis, just opinion.

M

 

[Matski]

So no crisis, just opinion.

M

... like clockwork ...

those who shit their pants as soon as someone says something bad in the S-Class thread

.. but yeah, just an opinion.

 

[Merc1]

Yep. I get it tho, Mercedes ran out of ideas while BMW comes up with new ideas that look like shit in most cases. It’s whatever you need to tell yourself.

M

 

[klier]

Yep. I get it tho, Mercedes ran out of ideas while BMW comes up with new ideas that look like shit in most cases.

Shit is obviously an opinion (I even agree for most models), whereas new ideas is an absolute fact.

So yeah...

 

[Merc1]

Shit is obviously an opinion (I even agree for most models), whereas new ideas is an absolute fact.

So yeah...

Factually pointless.

M

 

[leylandi]

G-Wag set a design ethos that said you keep reducing until things are just right (this is what Sensual Purity was - G-Wag literally wrote a book to explain it). For one generation that made sense, but after that there was no design language to reduce... anything that Mercedes did from then on had to be contrary to G-Wag's prevailing Sensual Purity idea, it's a stylistic dead end that they applied top to bottom for two generations - and the same guy is still in charge - does it make for ugly cars... no. Does it make for boring cars... yes. Nothing Mercedes is doing looks new, nothing looks different between -A and -S (with the exception of Maybe the actual G-Wagon).

Audi had exactly the same issue, they made everything look smart in the early 2000's-10's, then they ran out of ideas, they hadn't expanded their design language in any way... they made everything look the same, and ever since then they've been on the downward slide unable to find a look that works for them - trying to tweak what they had - like a cat-walk model's slide into face-lifts, botox and lip filler.

Much as the the same old trite criticism of what BMW has done for the last ten years or so may or may not be valid, they have (recently), not reversed themselves into a single look across the brand, for multiple generations (NK styling may be a problem, but so far, we only have one NK model to go from). The 3-er doesn't look like a 5-er, and the 5-er doesn't look like a 7-er etc.. The fanboi favourite Mercedes SL now has the face of the bottom rung A-Class... it's an unfunny joke that those who shit their pants as soon as someone says something bad in the S-Class thread - don't get.

Mercedes ran out of ideas, that's why the sacred cow looks like the grocery delivery van, and the SL looks entry level.

Mercedes need a design director that has the 'stones to do more than one thing.

Sacco must have run out of ideas too. Throughout history, Mercedes models have been very similar. With some exceptions.

BMW's latest design move has hit a wall. New ideas aren't always good. It's not hard to see a return to a more conservative philosophy with the NK.

 

[Rolf]

Mercedes need a design that is different and forward looking, but at the same time has strong elements of the past. They need a design that has a bit of a shock factor but in a good way.

 

[Design FIRST]

Mercedes need a design that is different and forward looking, but at the same time has strong elements of the past. They need a design that has a bit of a shock factor but in a good way.

It is not only in the aspect of design in which M-B has squandered numerous opportunities. IMHO, its brand equity has been steadily diminishing over the course of the past some 30 years. Moving progressively into higher unit volume markets and cutting corners in terms of fit, finish and the quality of materials has arguably been highly erosive Excessive gimmickry also comes into play. And competitiors that M-B once held easily at bay have not only caught up. Some have surpassed it in various aspects and serious competitiors are now becoming more numerous in the form of the Chinese. Returning to the design aspect, M-B's has presented few genuine home run stunners over this period. Perhaps the C219 CLS, a real stunner. Some may argue the C217/A217. Sedans and estates, some very pleasant on the eye, very handsome even, competently penned (W/S 214 E-Class) but not genuinely remarkable. What remains is M-B's exceptional reputation as an engineering company. Here, the star often shines very brightly indeed.

 

[Merc1]

Mercedes need a design that is different and forward looking, but at the same time has strong elements of the past. They need a design that has a bit of a shock factor but in a good way.

I agree, but this is very tricky. You can wind up with a hit like the iX3 or an ugly monstrosity like the 7-Series. Mercedes can't seem to design an EV that truly looks as good as it's ice counterpart. They must know this now.

M

 

[Rolf]

It is not only in the aspect of design in which M-B has squandered numerous opportunities. IMHO, its brand equity has been steadily diminishing over the course of the past some 30 years. Moving progressively into higher unit volume markets and cutting corners in terms of fit, finish and the quality of materials has arguably been highly erosive Excessive gimmickry also comes into play. And competitiors that M-B once held easily at bay have not only caught up. Some have surpassed it in various aspects and serious competitiors are now becoming more numerous in the form of the Chinese. Returning to the design aspect, M-B's has presented few genuine home run stunners over this period. Perhaps the C219 CLS, a real stunner. Some may argue the C217/A217. Sedans and estates, some very pleasant on the eye, very handsome even, competently penned (W/S 214 E-Class) but not genuinely remarkable. What remains is M-B's exceptional reputation as an engineering company. Here, the star often shines very brightly indeed.

Yes you nailed it perfectly, its not just the design that is faltering. The strength Mercedes built up in its car line up to the mid 90s with its world class build, material quality, solidity and impeccable engineering and safety was a step above all other car brands, but since they turned the tide to focus on costs in the mid 90s (W210 and later) their reputation has slowly been eroded and other car brands including some Chinese brands have caught up and overtaken Mercedes. No doubt they are still one of the best mainstream car brands in the world when it comes engineering, innovations and the way their cars drive. They still are world class when it comes to refinement, comfort, safety and vehicle safety innovations but the unburstable quality they once had is no longer the best.

With regards to the 3 big German luxury brands I do believe currently none of them is at the finest era. Audi and BMW are also suffering with design issues and compromises in their interior and material quality that are below the standards of cars in the 90s

 

[Serpens]

While it’s easy to point a finger at specific brands, one must acknowledge the automotive industry and globalization have changed drastically. I personally don’t think it’s possible for a brand to exist with that “cost be damned” attitude that gave the iconic brands of today their reputation. Rolls-Royce is really the only brand that has been able to maintain its peerless positioning despite everything in my view.

 

[Yaz]

This will be the longest S-Class in production since the W126.
Five model years already without a facelift.

 

[Uygar]

Sacco must have run out of ideas too. Throughout history, Mercedes models have been very similar. With some exceptions.

BMW's latest design move has hit a wall. New ideas aren't always good. It's not hard to see a return to a more conservative philosophy with the NK.

“Hit a wall” and still the leader out of the Germans, smh.