Vs Megatest : MP4-12C vs 458 vs Turbo S vs SLS AMG vs Noble M600 vs Ford GT

[Mafalda]

Your implication was that since McLaren were there with more people, then it must have meant more manipulations for the McLaren. That turns out to be not the case, and Ferrari for sure had prior track setup at Autocar last year (on top of further adjustments on day of test when it turned out the 458, even with prior setup, was slower than the GT3 RS). AutoExpress showed the GT3 RS beating the 458 at Anglesey, and now the 458 is miraculously beating the GT2 RS without any intervention?
No trace of trickery, so therefore we can expect to see Ferrari never touch a car in test again, yes? And that proves my point: You don't have to be in the field to optimize a car to factory spec tolerances.

or maybe that GT3 RS was manipulated
p.s GT3 RS is overall slower than 458
http://www.fastestlaps.com/comparisons/ferrari_458_italia-vs-porsche_997_gt3_rs_facelift.html
or simply GT2RS'd be better...
458 with different tyres and less fuel (see the text) does just 1s better than the 458 MY10 on PS2... just 1s, not three or four
even so, you can belive in your tales
no more answer to the funny crusade of yours: prove with facts the manipulations! bye

to the Administrators/moderatos
three months ago, just for having defended the ferrari, I have been insulted, abused, mocked ("fanboy"; "use the brain", etc) and , a the end, warned.
...and Guibo continuing with his unfounded crusade. Please do something.

 

[Mafalda]

thanks, as usual

 

[LaArtist]

I guess MB left their stamp on Mclaren..Fast in a straight line..less fast around the track..haha

 

[DeDe]

Guys, please do not continue your endless discussion here.

I really can't (well I think I don't want to) see the point.
Both Italia and Macca were slower than factory claims, blah.

 

[Mafalda]

Guys, please do not continue your endless discussion here.

I really can't (well I think I don't want to) see the point.
Both Italia and Macca were slower than factory claims, blah.

 

[Guibo]

Guys, FYI: all weight-numbers in this test are factory claims. 1485 kgs (with fluids) for the Italia, 1434 for the Macca, etc.

From the text on page 88:
"The 12C has the edge on paper, being both more powerful and lighter (a test weight of 1433 kg plays 1469kg)..."

 

[DeDe]

From the text on page 88:
"The 12C has the edge on paper, being both more powerful and lighter (a test weight of 1433 kg plays 1469kg)..."

For me it's hard to believe that this very same testcar's weight is 36 kgs less than it was in AutoBild...

 

[Guibo]

Do you happen to know how Ferrari weighs their cars? Is it like the European norm (standard, base car before options, with all fluids), or does it include all weight-saving options? If we can answer this, then we may have a better understanding of how all of these weights compare (ex: Sport Auto supertested car with 42.8k euros in carbon options weighing 1540-1546 kilos). Have you seen this particular car in other tests?

 

[DeDe]

Do you happen to know how Ferrari weighs their cars? Is it like the European norm (standard, base car before options, with all fluids), or does it include all weight-saving options? If we can answer this, then we may have a better understanding of how all of these weights compare (ex: Sport Auto supertested car with 42.8k euros in carbon options weighing 1540-1546 kilos). Have you seen this particular car in other tests?

I don't know Ferrari's methode.
At the Supertest-Italia: it's the same one AMS also tested and the weight-figures are basicly the same (with full of fluids): 1540-1544 kgs.
About this testcar: it's in AutoBild's latest handling-test and the weight is 1505 kgs with full tank of fuel.

 

[Mafalda]

italian magazines tested the 458 around 1.530 Kg (p.s. I remeber Auto wrote "23.500€ of CF optionals, not 45.000...)
and is so usual the final price of all supercars is +15 - 20% than the base price...
about 458, maybe this unit is a MY 11 with some improving about weight. ferrari usualy improves their cars, for Ex
the 348 from 1991 had the front battery, improved suspension, better seats and -30 Kgs;
512 TR from 1993 had shorter gear ratio and better engine;
F430 MY05 had a real output 480-485ps, from 2006 had 490-495ps

SLS tested by 4R: 1.701 Kgs
SLS teste dby Sport Auto: 1.647 Kg, it means -54 Kgs with all possible CF optionals (including rear view mirrors!)


...and don't forget the MP4 need £10.000 just for CCM brakes
Mc claims you can cut more than 30 Kg with CF optionals... price?

 

[Guibo]

I don't know Ferrari's methode.
At the Supertest-Italia: it's the same one AMS also tested and the weight-figures are basicly the same (with full of fluids): 1540-1544 kgs.
About this testcar: it's in AutoBild's latest handling-test and the weight is 1505 kgs with full tank of fuel.

Ok, so if it's 1505kg full of fuel, then that probably means about 48L of fuel (assuming .74kg/L) in this Evo test. And a difference of ~35kg between a car with for sure a lot of carbon options, vs even more options.

mafalda, the options and prices itemized in the Supertest. The 458 in Auto had different plate number than Evo/Sport Auto. Automobilismo's test sheet indicates 37k euros in carbon options and weight of 1544kg. Perhaps you have seen this Evo/AB test car before, yes?
McLaren's claim of CF weight savings seems plausible. Their other claims seem to be crashing and burning, however.

 

[Mafalda]

Ok, so if it's 1505kg full of fuel, then that probably means about 48L of fuel (assuming .74kg/L) in this Evo test. And a difference of ~35kg between a car with for sure a lot of carbon options, vs even more options.

mafalda, the options and prices itemized in the Supertest. The 458 in Auto had different plate number than Evo/Sport Auto. Automobilismo's test sheet indicates 37k euros in carbon options and weight of 1544kg. Perhaps you have seen this Evo/AB test car before, yes?
McLaren's claim of CF weight savings seems plausible. Their other claims seem to be crashing and burning, however.

is not plausible, is surely true , I'm just asking about price.
about 458 tested in 2010, Auto was 1,528 Kgs with al lots of CF for (now I'm sure) 28.500 € (you can buy the rest of cockpit in CF for other 11.500 €!)
the final price was 239.000 (with GPS system too
even so, there are a lots of test with full-track focused units
SLS (sport Auto)
Audi R8 GT (Quattroruote, unit 0/333, Pzero Corsa, Sportpack, rear tyres 305/30 R19, composite brakes)
Audi RS5 (Quattroruote 450ps, sport setup DRC, rear tires 275/30 20", active rear diff, composite brakes, active steer)
...and I really think is much more realistic a 458 with 30K euro of CF, than a "use friendly" 997 S with PCCB and Pilot Sport Cup

 

[Kowalski]

EVO: Ferrari 458 Italia vs McLaren MP4-12C vs Noble M600

EVO pits the 458 Italia against the MP4-12C and the M600 around the Bedford circuit.

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