Maybach and Aston Martin would be cooperating on future models

[Nicks]

VW does.

 

[K-A]

M-B and Aston Martin >>>>>>>>>> VW, so that's more reason as to why going down the "Van" road is or would be a bad perception move for either.

 

[Nicks]

What's that ">>>>>>>>>>" even mean?

To be honest man, sometimes i get the impression that you don't really care about car itself. What i get from you posts is that Mercedes is just a great way to show how much money you've made. And sure as hell the effect is not so satisfying as more cheaper cars get merc's badge on the hood.

 

[K-A]

>>>>> signifies "superior".

No, as an enthusiast I want to protect the elements of M-B that made them prestigious to me. Money has nothing to do with it, it's "emotion", perception of the soul. Yes, such things bring the cars up to a level that can be used as braggard/$$$$ oriented elements, but that's not what I'm on about.

Let me ask you, would you support M-B releasing a 4X4 Pickup Truck? How about M-B Golf Carts? Or how about M-B Minivans (I'm not talking about the R-Class, I mean a real and true Minivan). If there's no sanctity to M-B, then why just stop at unsexy and soulless MPV's and Vans? As an enthusiast, I naturally want to see M-B preserve such sanctity, as I obviously favor their cars, and I would hate to lose that "magic" that I've felt for them since a young kid (and I'll assure you that it wasn't SUV's/Vans/Etc. that made me feel that way ) due to them being a glossed up Toyota with a few higher end vehicles to boot.

 

[Nicks]

Let me ask you, would you support M-B releasing a 4X4 Pickup Truck?

You might wanna take a seat

Mercedes Unimog

How about M-B Golf Carts?

Those are not cars. Though, they still make MB bicycles

Or how about M-B Minivans (I'm not talking about the R-Class, I mean a real and true Minivan).

True minivan? Like this u mean -

 

[K-A]

Those aren't Minivans and Pickups, those are Commercial vehicles, which are fine to me as they've always been a part of M-B, and don't invade on their consumer cars/fleet (kind of stand on their own, out of the radar, and fund the company nicely to boot). I'm talking about a Ford F-150 Competitor.

And the Unimog is awesome.

 

[Pagani]

Mercedes-Benz fans should look at Daimler as shareholders, meaning that they should not too much what new product lines the company releases to the public so long as each of these products properly contributes to the long term future of the company and its bottom line. Thus, the company can bring to the market better iterations of their core models. MB has better margins now with its expanding model lines than it did at the late nineties, when they were forced to seek margins by thinning their quality standards. The v220 was a sub-par Mercedes in terms of quality and it was forced upon the company to secure profits that weren't materializing elsewhere. There is a point to companies wanting to be the largest in terms of sales: the larger the number of sales, the better the bottom line, and the healthier the R&D and quality of raw materials.

 

[Nicks]

Those aren't Minivans and Pickups, those are Commercial vehicles, which are fine to me as they've always been a part of M-B, and don't invade on their consumer cars/fleet (kind of stand on their own, out of the radar, and fund the company nicely to boot). I'm talking about a Ford F-150 Competitor.

And the Unimog is awesome.

How so? What do you consider real minivan if it's not like R-class or Viano?

F150 costs 23 grand. MB can't make any real rival for that price.

 

[Pagani]

Those aren't Minivans and Pickups, those are Commercial vehicles, which are fine to me as they've always been a part of M-B, and don't invade on their consumer cars/fleet (kind of stand on their own, out of the radar, and fund the company nicely to boot). I'm talking about a Ford F-150 Competitor.

And the Unimog is awesome.

You are biased here. In Europe, you will find the Mercedes Logo in four-wheeled vehicle that would put "shame" to your apparent pride in what Mercedes should really be. Mercedes is so proliferated as a brand there, that VW perhaps does not come close. But it is this proliferation (market base) that enables the Mercedes to be the engineering powerhouse it is. Because they can invest 10 times the R&D needed to create the technology rather than simply spend 1xR&D to adopt something another automaker has discovered. If MB closed themselves off to anything outside their C+E+S+SL formula, they would have been long bankrupt.

 

[K-A]

Understood, but why does this justify a fleet of MPV ugly cars? M-B still Markets themselves as a premier, sexy brand, and they price that into their cars. With so many MPV's running around, that won't be the case for long.

The M-B Commercial Trucks, etc. were never a dig toward the M-B cache, in fact, they help it. They show the length that M-B can engineer, yet you don't see them polluting M-B Dealerships, next to their flagship cars like the E/SL/S/CLS/Etc.

In Europe they have a whole different scenario. It's in the U.S where they should be careful. Too many funky FWD Vans/Hatchs, too many kids driving M-B's, and many of their core following and their Pop Culture dominance will evaporate.

 

[bmer]

So when they bring the A-Class/B-Class to the US, the S-Class will suddenly become less desirable? Or your E-Class will instantly become a lesser car?

MB Minivan? Well, I don't know if it counts (since it was a "semi" commercial vehicle) but they did produce the Vaneo for a while: Mercedes Vaneo

 

[Nicks]

Well to be fair Vaneo pretty much sucked which has a lot to do with it being based on old a-class platform. But Vito is doing great

 

[K-A]

So when they bring the A-Class/B-Class to the US, the S-Class will suddenly become less desirable? Or your E-Class will instantly become a lesser car?

MB Minivan? Well, I don't know if it counts (since it was a "semi" commercial vehicle) but they did produce the Vaneo for a while: Mercedes Vaneo

The M-B brand and stigma as a whole will move downmarket. They'll eventually be a brand with lots of quality European entry level cars, and SUV's/Utilities, priced at a premium over their Japanese/American competitors, and then they'll have their "Luxury line", which will be the S/E/SL/CLS/Etc. I don't think they'll be a "Luxury Automaker" in the absolute sense, once people get accustomed to the dropping price and age demographic.

You have to remember that in the U.S, M-B isn't famous and desired as first and foremost quality cars that are both respected/held high and used as Commercial, practicality, Taxi, etc. vehicles, they're famous first and foremost for their prestige and desirability.

 

[bmer]

The M-B brand and stigma as a whole will move downmarket. They'll eventually be a brand with lots of quality European entry level cars, and SUV's/Utilities, priced at a premium over their Japanese/American competitors, and then they'll have their "Luxury line", which will be the S/E/SL/CLS/Etc. I don't think they'll be a "Luxury Automaker" in the absolute sense, once people get accustomed to the dropping price and age demographic.

You have to remember that in the U.S, M-B isn't famous and desired as first and foremost quality cars that are both respected/held high and used as Commercial, practicality, Taxi, etc. vehicles, they're famous first and foremost for their prestige and desirability.

I think you're under-estimating the strength of the Mercedes-Benz brand. I don't think the lower-end models have had much effect on the brand image of MB in Europe or anywhere else. It's not like most people in Germany think of A-Class or R-Class when they hear the name 'Mercedes-Benz'.
It's also interesting that you use the word 'stigma' as it isn't usually considered to have a positive meaning. If anything MB has tried to shake off its "old man's car" image with new models like the C-Class Coupe that are sportier and appeal to younger demographics.

It's a hard task to sell a hatchback (or small cars in general for that matter) in the US but I think there is still a market for the A-Class variants MB has planned to introduce. If they have the same qualities that MB's larger models are known for i.e. quality, style and comfort with slightly more sportiness, I'm sure they will sell.

 

[Merc1]

I think you're under-estimating the strength of the Mercedes-Benz brand. I don't think the lower-end models have had much effect on the brand image of MB in Europe or anywhere else. It's not like most people in Germany think of A-Class or R-Class when they hear the name 'Mercedes-Benz'.
It's also interesting that you use the word 'stigma' as it isn't usually considered to have a positive meaning. If anything MB has tried to shake off its "old man's car" image with new models like the C-Class Coupe that are sportier and appeal to younger demographics.

It's a hard task to sell a hatchback (or small cars in general for that matter) in the US but I think there is still a market for the A-Class variants MB has planned to introduce. If they have the same qualities that MB's larger models are known for i.e. quality, style and comfort with slightly more sportiness, I'm sure they will sell.

I agree. Long as these cars aren't cheap-out efforts they won't harm Mercedes' image. That and as long as Mercedes has cars like the SLS roadster, C63 Black Series and other hot models on the same floor, their image won't be hurt too much. People still know what Mercedes is capable of and they see the cheaper models as just that, lesser models but the Mercedes-Benz name/status/image doesn't change IMO. Long as they have stunners up the line they're good.


M