LIVE from the 2010 Geneva Motor Show! Full BMW coverage inside!

[PanterroR]

At some point in time Mr. de Vries you'll realise that different people have different needs around motoring and that you sit on the extreme end of the scale when it comes to your need for a high-performance car. On the opposite end of this spectrum sit people who only want status, excess and luxury in extremis. Some of them actually frequent such a forum.

However, in between this vast polarity sits the general car buyer en mass. This is the consumer who's not hardcore nor are they hell-bent on making a statement at the country club. They're looking for a good balance - a good overall value proposition that blends several attributes on opposite ends of the scale to achieve a middle ground compromise. A fair dose of luxury, a good measure of sporting performance and, hey presto: BMW 5 series. Sure, it's not an M3 CSL but it has dynamic limits that are so high as to be more than enough for even a spirited driver for on-road use.

Middle-ground, best-of-both-worlds, compromise, all-rounder, versatility - all of these attributes are mutually exclusive with the cars that turn you on AdvEvo and yet, in this day and age are the most sought after by the largest majority of buyers.

Hence, when all the fuss 'n dust around a vapourised M1 and a ballsy hybrid supercar has died down, it'll be clear to see that the BMW 5 Series is the most significant car launched at Geneva this year. Hence, in my opinion, a very clever move on BMW's part to keep it in the limelight without any unwanted distractions.

Who gives a sh!t whether BMW CM said it was going to be there or not. The outcome, regardless, is the logical and correct one for this car maker. And, on top of that, BMW actually did keep most of the internet whingers happy with the showing of the M3 CP which looks fantastic. It's only the most extreme proponents of performance motoring (i.e. on that end of the scale) such as yourself that remain disappointed.

Be assured, I'm not condemning you in any way at all - I empathise with your point-of-view - but please realise that you and your ilk represent the absolute, and often, unprofitable minority.

This place wouldn't be the same without you, i have nothing to add except get down on my knees and .

Martin, as always, RESPECT!

ADV, hope you didn't got offended with my post though, no harm meant...

 

[Human]

^
Ditto! AND he is from the RSA

 

[LaArtist]

At some point in time Mr. de Vries you'll realise that different people have different needs around motoring and that you sit on the extreme end of the scale when it comes to your need for a high-performance car. On the opposite end of this spectrum sit people who only want status, excess and luxury in extremis. Some of them actually frequent such a forum.

However, in between this vast polarity sits the general car buyer en mass. This is the consumer who's not hardcore nor are they hell-bent on making a statement at the country club. They're looking for a good balance - a good overall value proposition that blends several attributes on opposite ends of the scale to achieve a middle ground compromise. A fair dose of luxury, a good measure of sporting performance and, hey presto: BMW 5 series. Sure, it's not an M3 CSL but it has dynamic limits that are so high as to be more than enough for even a spirited driver for on-road use.

Middle-ground, best-of-both-worlds, compromise, all-rounder, versatility - all of these attributes are mutually exclusive with the cars that turn you on AdvEvo and yet, in this day and age are the most sought after by the largest majority of buyers.

Hence, when all the fuss 'n dust around a vapourised M1 and a ballsy hybrid supercar has died down, it'll be clear to see that the BMW 5 Series is the most significant car launched at Geneva this year. Hence, in my opinion, a very clever move on BMW's part to keep it in the limelight without any unwanted distractions.

Who gives a sh!t whether BMW CM said it was going to be there or not. The outcome, regardless, is the logical and correct one for this car maker. And, on top of that, BMW actually did keep most of the internet whingers happy with the showing of the M3 CP which looks fantastic. It's only the most extreme proponents of performance motoring (i.e. on that end of the scale) such as yourself that remain disappointed.

Be assured, I'm not condemning you in any way at all - I empathise with your point-of-view - but please realise that you and your ilk represent the absolute, and often, unprofitable minority.

Agreed.. There is not 1 single person who would say that a M1 or supercar is more significant than the 5er..
It is by far the most important car shown at Geneva.
But one thing i must address is when you say: Who cares if the CM team told us that the M1 will be here?
Well obviously it annoys a lot of people, as it makes you discuss and put energy into a product that might not even exist. That is reason enough to be upset, no matter if there is a 5er or not.

 

[PanterroR]

But one thing i must address is when you say: Who cares if the CM team told us that the M1 will be here?
Well obviously it annoys a lot of people, as it makes you discuss and put energy into a product that might not even exist. That is reason enough to be upset, no matter if there is a 5er or not.

Since when you give a shit what CM says?

 

[south]

Everyone seems to be excited about the new X3 and especially the 5 Series, the "core of the brand" as the 5 Series designer called it.

It's understandable that the 5 series designer thinks of it as the core of the brand, and I agree that the 5 series is one of their most important models. Anyway, the real "core of the brand" is the 3 series, it's always been like that and this probably never will change.

Hence, when all the fuss 'n dust around a vapourised M1 and a ballsy hybrid supercar has died down, it'll be clear to see that the BMW 5 Series is the most significant car launched at Geneva this year. Hence, in my opinion, a very clever move on BMW's part to keep it in the limelight without any unwanted distractions.

Another outstanding post, Martin! I'd have to disagree on the "ballsy hybrid supercar", though. Porsche caught up with most of the green development and apparently needed just one Geneva show to do so. Despite the mediocre press conference, they conveyed how well prepared for future tasks they are. I have to say I'm really impressed. This is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, though.


Best regards,
south

 

[martinbo]

Fair enough south, but in the context of the discussion on relevance and significance of cars launched by BMW at Geneva, I say that the 5er is a far more significant launch (mind that they also showed a Hybrid Concept) than a Porsche hypercar concept - irrespective of how pertinent the technology is at the moment.

 

[AdvEvo]

I would never never invest money in a 5 series. But i know i am one of the happy few who likes driving into extreme s. A car must give me that. The M1 could be a car like that because the 130i is THE best base drivers car in the bmw lineup but with some tweaks suspension and lsd etc. It s massive fun. That s why i build a race car from it and not from an M3. I also had E90 M3 streetcar and i sold it last week. I was so bored with that car. It s no daily drive to much noise and it takes gas like there is no tommorow and on extreme driving you feel the weight it s far too heavy.

Yes i am a strange guy. LOL But when i pay premium, i want my hair on fire The M1 could be the car the job but again bmw lacks it. The thru Motorsport heritage has been taken over by the green agenda and for guys such as me are faling into a deep hole because at bmw there is nothing interesting anymore except the golden oldies.

 

[rollo]

Interesting conversation here.

I would add that a great many long-term BMW customers have been "disappointed" by what I call "product creep" and "softening" of their image, for quite some time. Also, I believe a lot of the frustration regarding the M1 no show, is that it represents "another nail in the coffin" or "death by a thousand cuts" to some of us. The E39 to E60 was particularly painful to me from a design and size point of view. I own an E60, but I would not purchase another one with the choices out there today, so the F10 better be all its cracked up to be or I'm buying something else. And BMW has spent plenty of time and capital developing a myriad of spin-offs and new cars over the last decade while not investing enough in higher performance legacy models or God forbid, a new one in my view. The value of these performance models cannot just be measured by their incremental "direct" profit contribution from sales, they also contribute "indirectly" to the entire portfolio by reinforcing the brand image, thereby making the other models in the portfolio more attractive to those of us who need 4 doors. And don't forget about those who own more than one car (small, but substantial market).

From a profitability perspective (and that's why companies are in business), perhaps the new strategy will prove over time to be spot on. But complacency regarding their sport-oriented image and improving competition, could also erode their position in the market place. Only time will tell.

 

[AdvEvo]

rurella what a great post. My english is far from good enough to write such as you did. But it s spot on.

 

[LaArtist]

Since when you give a shit what CM says?

I read everything..

And sometimes i get dragged into it to invest my time and energy..
As many others.. so one should understand their frustration..
And not just wave it away like nothing.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

At some point in time Mr. de Vries you'll realise that different people have different needs around motoring and that you sit on the extreme end of the scale when it comes to your need for a high-performance car. On the opposite end of this spectrum sit people who only want status, excess and luxury in extremis. Some of them actually frequent such a forum.

However, in between this vast polarity sits the general car buyer en mass. This is the consumer who's not hardcore nor are they hell-bent on making a statement at the country club. They're looking for a good balance - a good overall value proposition that blends several attributes on opposite ends of the scale to achieve a middle ground compromise. A fair dose of luxury, a good measure of sporting performance and, hey presto: BMW 5 series. Sure, it's not an M3 CSL but it has dynamic limits that are so high as to be more than enough for even a spirited driver for on-road use.

Middle-ground, best-of-both-worlds, compromise, all-rounder, versatility - all of these attributes are mutually exclusive with the cars that turn you on AdvEvo and yet, in this day and age are the most sought after by the largest majority of buyers.

Hence, when all the fuss 'n dust around a vapourised M1 and a ballsy hybrid supercar has died down, it'll be clear to see that the BMW 5 Series is the most significant car launched at Geneva this year. Hence, in my opinion, a very clever move on BMW's part to keep it in the limelight without any unwanted distractions.

Who gives a sh!t whether BMW CM said it was going to be there or not. The outcome, regardless, is the logical and correct one for this car maker. And, on top of that, BMW actually did keep most of the internet whingers happy with the showing of the M3 CP which looks fantastic. It's only the most extreme proponents of performance motoring (i.e. on that end of the scale) such as yourself that remain disappointed.

Be assured, I'm not condemning you in any way at all - I empathise with your point-of-view - but please realise that you and your ilk represent the absolute, and often, unprofitable minority.

A great post Martin. Very eloquent and sums up how I feel. I agree, the 5 Series has every right to be the centre of the show. However, I take issue with the highlighted sentences. A lot of people DO give a sh!t if they are being manipulated by CM. And it wasn't a sudden decision to display the 5 Series at Geneva. It was always going to make it's debut there, so to pull the M1 out, allegedly because they didn't want to over shadow the 5 Series, is no excuse at all. It doesn't justify the teasing by BMW CM. Don't get me wrong, I'm not devastated about the absence of the M1. I'm kind of sticking up for the aggrieved camp because what BMW CM are doing is just downright wrong and is doing more harm to the BMW brand on here than anything else I know.

 

[AdvEvo]

You can call me a bmw fan boy. I enjoy bmw very much. But each month the change at bmw is bigger and bigger. To a point which is far away from what i am in search for. You also see lots racing cut back from bmw. This is not the brand which i enjoyed so much when i bought my first bmw.

Bmw was the sporty motorsport brand. When you bought a bmw you bought a car which has won the race on sunday you could buy it on monday. The special feeling about owning a bmw ///M product flows away further day by day. I really don t want it this way. Ultimately it will push me so far to buy me a GT3. A car i rather not have because i love the front engine rwd layout so much.

Why does bmw ease out of motorsports so much. Why can t it be more like porsche but then with normal shaped cars. ///M was the Motorsport letter. At last thats what it once was.

For me this is a great loss. I remember the time when the E36 M3 GT in racing green arrived at my dealer. I was drooling like a kid which got his first candy. The last time that happend was with the M3 CSL. The GTS was a nice try but with the limited supply and price the impact is not as near as the E36 M3 GT and CSL. On m-Power you see only complains about the GTS.

Now see again what porsche does with 918. Look how entusiast all people are about 3.8 GT3 and RS. It s not my kind of car. But you can understand the letter ///M was meant to be called Motorsport but what is left of it lately.

Sorry for my post but this how i think about it.

 

[bilen]

Doesn´t Wiesmann offer a compelling "BMW"?
GT MF4-S, lightweight rwd m3-frontengine.

Not sure how it performs on a track though.
Have you ever thought about wiesmann AdvEvo?

 

[AdvEvo]

No wiesmann is not my kind of car.