Lexus Future Vehicles
- Thread starter HighestOfHigh
- Start date
Carmaker1
Quattro Commander
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- 533
300 B program Lexus GS for the 2020 model year was replaced by the latest 2021 Toyota Mirai hydrogen fuel cell.
From what I heard, a final design was set in the late months of 2015.
The LS+ Concept of 2017 wore the styling cues of the defunct GS vehicle, which was suspended in October 2016 and reassigned to the Mirai.
By late 2017, the new final design for the 2021 Mirai was approved and Toyoda, rejected any further resurrection of GS development.
In other words 2021 Mirai = 2020 MY GS + hydrogen power. That car would've entered production in April 2019.
The existing L10 GS, in production since December 2011, will slowly die off by CY 2021. First the non-performance line, concluding with GS-F by end of 2021. No more GS.
2022 IS will be DOA, because Toyoda and his board don't see worthwile investment outside of certain products.
I truly believe that Lexus should have introduced multiple variants of the IS line as early as 2000-2001 to successfully compete with the E46.
Or for the 1994/95 MY, during a Lexus product lull. The 1992 ES 300 was stupidly marketed from 1991 as a sports sedan, which it wasn't. They didn't even study a rear wheel drive compact in the vein of the E36, until 1993.
Seeing the new C-Class (and hearing about W163 development), it made sense to study both that and a new unibody luxury crossover. In early 1994 both programs got off ground, concluding in styling approvals in late 1995 alongside a second generation GS (design freeze).
One named RX and the other IS. It was very stupid to start a new product in this vein so late, when BMW were developing one of their best product lines ever in the E46. Prototypes of the sedan were already running in December 1995.
Then for Lexus to introduce the weak IS 200 in early 1999 solo, with IS 300 sedan 18 months later in mid-2000. At that point, the lack of coupe and cabrio versions, high-performance iterations did little build the RWD lineup, below the briefly successful 2nd gen GS and derivative, yet high quality LS 430 flagship.
They thought putting out the hardtop cabrio SC 430 and ISC would cover both the coupe and cabriolet in easy swoop, only for it to eventually fall flat on their face in the end.
The fact they never tried to establish a full line up of credible luxury products early on, they never had a chance. This is something Infiniti attempted to do, but failed to keep momentum in having little to no prestige compared to both Toyota and Lexus.
Plus, watered down the unique design of the 2002 V35 G-Series range into the overly curvy V36 of 2006-07 and uninspired incumbent V37 sedan (CV37 has a mediocre interior, great body). The same can be said for the competitive 2005-10 M sedan being watered down to the Y51 Q70.
One of the biggest gaffes they ever made was catering to the fanbase of JDM tuner/performance car fanboys and not branding the GT-R as an Infiniti.
Very stupid to be selling such a new and elevated nameplate vehicle in a showroom next to a Versa and being talked to by scourge of the earth US Nissan salesmen.
The halo effect would have given Infiniti credibility. I digress.
Japanese automakers cannot hope to make a profit anymore, with vehicles that have a much smaller global sales base, at lesser volume in principle markets, and at lower prices than their European competition.
There is no profit margin at that point. Lexus' is looking dreary right now. Through 2024, very few worthwhile products are going into production at Lexus.
Like with Nissan vs. Infiniti of late, Toyota brand is getting the bulk of new, enticing products. Lexus is going to suffer.
LS will be facelifted, as needed in 2021.
LC for MY 2022. 2023 for LC-F.
LX will be redesigned for MY 2022. Now LX 600 and LX 500d.
GS will die. No replacement.
New IS coming 2021, it is going to be underwhelming and just on a new platform, but no major changes it needs to be competitive.
ES will get AWD, then a refresh for MY 2022.
UX will get EV version for 2021. Refresh MY 2022.
NX is a MY 2022 redesign, new platform (GA-K)
Next RX is due by 2022, on longer GA-K.
GX redesign is due in 2023.
New GA-L performance crossover is still in development.
Akio Toyoda only favors pet projects. He will let anything not of interest to him personally and hated by at least 1 member, to be rejected.
The LS was compromised for so many reasons, but for the fact the XF40 was seen as too ambitious of a product and the stupid impulse to establish the LS, as a value priced sporty niche sedan (a la Panamera). Something the GS should've been...
From what I heard, a final design was set in the late months of 2015.
The LS+ Concept of 2017 wore the styling cues of the defunct GS vehicle, which was suspended in October 2016 and reassigned to the Mirai.
By late 2017, the new final design for the 2021 Mirai was approved and Toyoda, rejected any further resurrection of GS development.
In other words 2021 Mirai = 2020 MY GS + hydrogen power. That car would've entered production in April 2019.
The existing L10 GS, in production since December 2011, will slowly die off by CY 2021. First the non-performance line, concluding with GS-F by end of 2021. No more GS.
2022 IS will be DOA, because Toyoda and his board don't see worthwile investment outside of certain products.
I truly believe that Lexus should have introduced multiple variants of the IS line as early as 2000-2001 to successfully compete with the E46.
Or for the 1994/95 MY, during a Lexus product lull. The 1992 ES 300 was stupidly marketed from 1991 as a sports sedan, which it wasn't. They didn't even study a rear wheel drive compact in the vein of the E36, until 1993.
Seeing the new C-Class (and hearing about W163 development), it made sense to study both that and a new unibody luxury crossover. In early 1994 both programs got off ground, concluding in styling approvals in late 1995 alongside a second generation GS (design freeze).
One named RX and the other IS. It was very stupid to start a new product in this vein so late, when BMW were developing one of their best product lines ever in the E46. Prototypes of the sedan were already running in December 1995.
Then for Lexus to introduce the weak IS 200 in early 1999 solo, with IS 300 sedan 18 months later in mid-2000. At that point, the lack of coupe and cabrio versions, high-performance iterations did little build the RWD lineup, below the briefly successful 2nd gen GS and derivative, yet high quality LS 430 flagship.
They thought putting out the hardtop cabrio SC 430 and ISC would cover both the coupe and cabriolet in easy swoop, only for it to eventually fall flat on their face in the end.
The fact they never tried to establish a full line up of credible luxury products early on, they never had a chance. This is something Infiniti attempted to do, but failed to keep momentum in having little to no prestige compared to both Toyota and Lexus.
Plus, watered down the unique design of the 2002 V35 G-Series range into the overly curvy V36 of 2006-07 and uninspired incumbent V37 sedan (CV37 has a mediocre interior, great body). The same can be said for the competitive 2005-10 M sedan being watered down to the Y51 Q70.
One of the biggest gaffes they ever made was catering to the fanbase of JDM tuner/performance car fanboys and not branding the GT-R as an Infiniti.
Very stupid to be selling such a new and elevated nameplate vehicle in a showroom next to a Versa and being talked to by scourge of the earth US Nissan salesmen.
The halo effect would have given Infiniti credibility. I digress.
Japanese automakers cannot hope to make a profit anymore, with vehicles that have a much smaller global sales base, at lesser volume in principle markets, and at lower prices than their European competition.
There is no profit margin at that point. Lexus' is looking dreary right now. Through 2024, very few worthwhile products are going into production at Lexus.
Like with Nissan vs. Infiniti of late, Toyota brand is getting the bulk of new, enticing products. Lexus is going to suffer.
LS will be facelifted, as needed in 2021.
LC for MY 2022. 2023 for LC-F.
LX will be redesigned for MY 2022. Now LX 600 and LX 500d.
GS will die. No replacement.
New IS coming 2021, it is going to be underwhelming and just on a new platform, but no major changes it needs to be competitive.
ES will get AWD, then a refresh for MY 2022.
UX will get EV version for 2021. Refresh MY 2022.
NX is a MY 2022 redesign, new platform (GA-K)
Next RX is due by 2022, on longer GA-K.
GX redesign is due in 2023.
New GA-L performance crossover is still in development.
Akio Toyoda only favors pet projects. He will let anything not of interest to him personally and hated by at least 1 member, to be rejected.
The LS was compromised for so many reasons, but for the fact the XF40 was seen as too ambitious of a product and the stupid impulse to establish the LS, as a value priced sporty niche sedan (a la Panamera). Something the GS should've been...
hoffmeister_fan
Kraftwagen König
- Messages
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Lots of dragging of feet, laziness, and/or indecisiveness has led to many model-lines dying that need not face death if they were better tended to. Despite Akio-san's car enthusiast persona, his stewardship led to the GX, the GS, and the IS to languish, while their cash-cows are suffering mediocrity. Now they, like many other legacy makers, are like headless chickens trying to figure out what kind of bet to make in a post-ICE era or how to deal with products that are increasingly becoming connected.
- Messages
- 41,225
- Name
- Marcus
It all goes back to what I said about the difference between an actual luxury car manufacturer vs a luxury brand. Mercedes and BMW stand alone in this regard. You can make the case for Audi if you like, they have VAG and it’s vast resources behind them. One thing is clear though, GM, Toyota, Honda, Nissan and the like are NOT luxury car manufacturers and it’s starting to show. All of their captive brands are losing steam vs the Germans. Sure the can land glancing blows but they can’t deliver the knockout punch. If Toyota’s Lexus brand is receding that is most telling, as it once sent a shock thru the Germans.
I don’t understand one thing tho, if the IS is moving to a new platform why is it going to be DOA? I really hate to see the GS die off, that means Lexus is giving that segment away. What are the engine specs for the LC F? No LS F?
M
I don’t understand one thing tho, if the IS is moving to a new platform why is it going to be DOA? I really hate to see the GS die off, that means Lexus is giving that segment away. What are the engine specs for the LC F? No LS F?
M
Carmaker1
Quattro Commander
- Messages
- 533
Very well stated. The next IS I have figured out is a redesign on the same New N platform, introduced in early 2012 on the GS and ALREADY a heavy revision of the N platform, used by the 2006 IS (introduced Oct 2005).
No new platform. They canceled it. Model nameplate may die or be shared with Mazda "MX-6" in 2024.
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It has to do with brand management only. It should be a topic in business schools. BMW also fails in some regards compared to Mercedes, regarding the 7 Series vs S Class.
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- 41,225
- Name
- Marcus
No it doesn’t, not even close. You missed the point totally. BMW not being able to knock off the S-Class is not for lack of trying or no resources. It’s a customer preference for any number of reasons. BMW has been lock step MB in that segment for over 30 years.
Lexus and all the rest of Asian and American luxury “brands” are just that, a side business not the primary focus of their holding companies. It’s the difference between a record label and a actual record company. Lexus giving up the GS means nothing to them. BMW and Mercedes can’t possibly discontinue the 5er or E without serious damage to their bottom line and image because those are core products. Toyota’s core products are not Lexuses. None of them can keep up product wise because their primary focus is on the family car side of the business. Brands like Acura and Infiniti in particular are just footnotes.
M
- Messages
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- Name
- Marcus
- Messages
- 6,158
Ok, my mistake about 7 Series, but I am right about brand managment. What BMW and Mercedes are doing is exactly that, but they only have one brand to manage. Well Mercedes also has to manage utility vehicles. Mercedes fail with the Maybach.
VAG for example can manage high-end brands, Seat and Skoda on the other hand are not better managed than PSAs three, recently 4 and who knows how many soon. GM failed too at this task. Except VAG, they can manage premium along mainstream.
Lexus was on a good start, but management issues at Toyota hampered its growth.
Maserati has everything needed to be successful, but management failed, in addition to the common FCA issues.
Genesis waited too long for CUVs.
Carlos Goshn failed with Infiniti. It is a hard task, there are so many examples in other industries.
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- 41,225
- Name
- Marcus
Only partially, I’m talking about why they have these issues, it makes my point about them bring labels, brands, not manufacturers. As you point out BMW and MB only have themselves to worry about, that is exactly my point about them being manufactures vs just a brand.
M
SKY
Silver Arrow Expert
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- Name
- Alberto
No all-new sedans from Lexus then? Just heavy facelifts of the current ones?
- Messages
- 38,109
Toyota has given up on Lexus? Are is this the calm before the BEV storm?
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Lexus
Lexus is the luxury vehicle division of the Japanese automaker Toyota Motor Corporation.
Founded in 1989, the Lexus brand is marketed in over 90 countries and territories worldwide
and is Japan's largest-selling make of premium cars. Lexus is headquartered in Nagoya, Japan.
Its operational centers are in Brussels, Belgium, and Plano, Texas, United States.
Official website: Lexus
Official website: Lexus
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