TT just when i started to really like the TT..

[Merc1]

Very few cars can outhandle a Porsche, on any level.

I love love love the new TT in terms of looks and buid quality, depth of engineering, etc. I like this car MUCH more than the Z4 coupe. However the driving dynamics are of great concern to me, because i want this car to suceed, but Audi being Audi... that can only be a hope easily dashed by poor engine placement. Though, as many have said this car uses a hybrid chassis setup so that could indeed counter some of the negative weight at the front. Only a test drive by a noteworthy auto publication will tell.. or perhaps a drive on our own. The ONLY reason I'd take a Z4 coupe over the new TT is driving dynamics, i'm a road junkie. BiG time!

Oh I hear what you're saying for sure.

M

 

[sunnyman12]

if I was buying a TT it would be with all wheel drive and not FWD.

iwas meaning that if bought a coupe in the tts class the AWD factor would throw me off of it, because RWD is what i believe feels best

 

[LaArtist]

so quattro is a option on all TT modells?

PS
Check it out.. im a aficionado (whatever that is)...
whats the next step.. Get A life and then Your account has been shut down..
lol

 

[Yperion]

Some of you have to understand that for the average Joe Doe out there FWD or AWD is a better and safer option than RWD. One of my neighbours almost crashed his E46 3 series while braking and turning in order to avoid a dog. Of course the ESP saved his life but he shortly afterwards sold the car because he didn't felt safe in it.

 

[Zafiro]

Some of you have to understand that for the average Joe Doe out there FWD or AWD is a better and safer option than RWD. One of my neighbours almost crashed his E46 3 series while braking and turning in order to avoid a dog. Of course the ESP saved his life but he shortly afterwards sold the car because he didn't felt safe in it.

ASC and DSC saved my ass one day during winter a couple of years ago. Bimmers are much better during winter than for 20 years ago. I feel safe in bimmers thats for sure.

 

[Snake Vargas]

Some of you have to understand that for the average Joe Doe out there FWD or AWD is a better and safer option than RWD. One of my neighbours almost crashed his E46 3 series while braking and turning in order to avoid a dog. Of course the ESP saved his life but he shortly afterwards sold the car because he didn't felt safe in it.

The only problem is getting them to realise or admit that.

Nobody chooses a roadster because it's safer, much less to protect them from themselves. They want the best handling one, even if it's jsut for the pose value, to pretend that they know how to utilise that potential. It gives them the halo effect - that the car's ability rubs off onto their persona. Of course, for many, the halo effect comes from the car's outward appearance, or its newness, but that's another story.

A roadster buyer would probably rather die rather than admit they needed the car's dynamic abilities to be set up so they don't kill themselves.

 

[p373r7r4n]

geez... y r we having this arguement at all...
the car has available AWD and can handle well regardless of the far front engine


its not like anyone here is gonna get the the FWD


also keep in mind the RS4 is built this way too.. with the engine far up front.. and guess what, it can outhandle an M5

 

[martinbo]

iwas meaning that if bought a coupe in the tts class the AWD factor would throw me off of it, because RWD is what i believe feels best

You say that like all wheel drive is a bad thing. This may be your opinion but for all but the most evocative of performance cars RWD is a little overrated.
How many people out there even have an inkling of the true benefits of RWD? The crisp steering feel, unencumbered by the interference of driveshaft forces. Or what about the delicate change in feedback as the vehicle pitches under acceleration and braking. Or how about that wonderful lack of understeer as you turn the car in early, balance the throttle and mash it down on corner exit? We've heard it all before, but in everyday driving you'll never approach the limits of your vehicle to experience this. This is the stuff of highly illegal road use and track day pursuits.

Oh, and all of the above could just as easily have been written for an STi, EVO or R32 for that matter. AWD cars are getting better and their tactile rewards are on the increase.

Engine placement is a key consideration for a vehicle that has drive sent to the front axle. In fact, it's fundamental to the design of any all-wheel drive vehicle. Weight over a given axle is essential in increasing grip and the way a vehicle transfers this weight during acceleration and cornering has a direct effect on the amount of traction at that axle. That's why RWD vehicles are better at accelerating than their FWD counterparts: weight is transferred aft under acceleration, increasing the grip at the rear giving better traction for faster pull aways.

So, now that an AWD vehicle has a measure of drive sent to the front wheels, it's important that there is enough mass over the front axle to provide traction. If the engine was mounted well back then the lack of weight over the front axle would negate the benefits of proper all-wheel drive under full bore acceleration.

There's more to AWD than meets the eye. For those of you that haven't, I suggest that you go and drive an Impreza WRX or EVO or S4/RS4 and marvel at the levels of grip that each of these vehicles has. It makes for some truly phenomenal cornering ability. Fact, not fiction. If you're unconvinced then read up on how the R32 has trounced the lap time of the 11 kW stronger, mechanically "more efficient" 130i in every comparison I care to recall.

Oh and as for the TT's engine being mounted over the front axle, well, the Z4 Coupe's is mounted more "over the front axle" than "behind the front axle" too:

 

[Deutsch]

You say that like all wheel drive is a bad thing. This may be your opinion but for all but the most evocative of performance cars RWD is a little overrated.
How many people out there even have an inkling of the true benefits of RWD? The crisp steering feel, unencumbered by the interference of driveshaft forces. Or what about the delicate change in feedback as the vehicle pitches under acceleration and braking. Or how about that wonderful lack of understeer as you turn the car in early, balance the throttle and mash it down on corner exit? We've heard it all before, but in everyday driving you'll never approach the limits of your vehicle to experience this. This is the stuff of highly illegal road use and track day pursuits.

Oh, and all of the above could just as easily have been written for an STi, EVO or R32 for that matter. AWD cars are getting better and their tactile rewards are on the increase.

Engine placement is a key consideration for a vehicle that has drive sent to the front axle. In fact, it's fundamental to the design of any all-wheel drive vehicle. Weight over a given axle is essential in increasing grip and the way a vehicle transfers this weight during acceleration and cornering has a direct effect on the amount of traction at that axle. That's why RWD vehicles are better at accelerating than their FWD counterparts: weight is transferred aft under acceleration, increasing the grip at the rear giving better traction for faster pull aways.

So, now that an AWD vehicle has a measure of drive sent to the front wheels, it's important that there is enough mass over the front axle to provide traction. If the engine was mounted well back then the lack of weight over the front axle would negate the benefits of proper all-wheel drive under full bore acceleration.

There's more to AWD than meets the eye. For those of you that haven't, I suggest that you go and drive an Impreza WRX or EVO or S4/RS4 and marvel at the levels of grip that each of these vehicles has. It makes for some truly phenomenal cornering ability. Fact, not fiction. If you're unconvinced then read up on how the R32 has trounced the lap time of the 11 kW stronger, mechanically "more efficient" 130i in every comparison I care to recall.

Oh and as for the TT's engine being mounted over the front axle, well, the Z4 Coupe's is mounted more "over the front axle" than "behind the front axle" too:

 

[Yperion]

Amazing post by Martin. Sometimes i feel bleshed to be a part of this forum.

 

[Mr. Mercedes]

In Wheels magazine they have an article saying the 1st Audi to adopt a layout very similar to BMW will be the new A4. I think thats when Audi will really start to give MB and BMW a kick up the butt in the ride/handling deparment. Right now most Audi's seem somewhat compromised in this respect.

I'm sure though this new TT will be a HUGE improvment and probably outhandle the current SLK.

 

[sunnyman12]

more on this after exams

 

[EnI]

In Wheels magazine they have an article saying the 1st Audi to adopt a layout very similar to BMW will be the new A4. I think thats when Audi will really start to give MB and BMW a kick up the butt in the ride/handling deparment. Right now most Audi's seem somewhat compromised in this respect.

BMW are not resting. The new chasis upgrades for E90 are already in developmnet / testing - scheduled for E90 facelift.

Also new generation of xDrive will hit the E90 at facelift - even more dynamic, even more agile, for even more direct steering.

Progress is constant & restless.

 

[Deutsch]

I'm really enjoying this discussion, a lot of interesting and great feedback. However, I think as far as safety goes, AWD obviously has it's benefits, ultimately though a car is only as safe as its' driver.

 

[martinbo]

I'm really enjoying this discussion, a lot of interesting and great feedback. However, I think as far as safety goes, AWD obviously has it's benefits, ultimately though a car is only as safe as its' driver.

Well put Deutsch. And there's an important point in this, AWD is often lauded as being exceptional in terms of vehicle safety. This is a fallacy. AWD is only safe in the hands of a trained driver who knows what the dynamic benefits of AWD are.

In my opinion a car equipped with an electronic stability program with two wheel drive is far safer than an AWD vehicle sans stability control systems. Sure, it's fun to go hurtling around in aforementioned Jap road rally specials, but ultimately when the limits of adhesion of four patches of rubber are overcome then the driver better know his oats on corrective action. It's very often that AWD creates a false sense of security and drivers are caught unaware. There is no substitute for advanced driver training!

A point that I'd like to make is that it is technically correct to say that each of the FWD, RWD and AWD layouts have pros and cons about them. None are perfect at everything though each one is ideal in certain instances. But to say that AWD is bad or FWD is bad or RWD is bad... well that's just, erm, bad.

 

[Zafiro]

Did you guys know that every fifth BMW in Sweden thats been sold is equipped with X-drive. Personally I would still choose a RWD 3er. Not that I have tested X-drive but as a driver I enjoy RWD bimmers and so far I havent had any accident with a RWD bimmer and Sweden isnt well-knows for it hot climate. If I ever buy a Audi I will choose with Quattro and not FWD.

 

[PanterroR]

Did you guys know that every fifth BMW in Sweden thats been sold is equipped with X-drive.

Who gives a $h!t about you or Sweden????

j/k

Of course, you freaks, when it's snowing 300 days a year by you...

 

[Zonda]

Who gives a $h!t about you or Sweden????

j/k

Of course, you freaks, when it's snowing 300 days a year by you...

Lol, the most common prejudice about about Sweden

 

[MikeJ]

In Finland approximately 26 % of BMWs registered Jan-Feb were AWD. Audi approx. 31 %, Mercedes approx. 16 %.

 

[Deutsch]

Just so you guys have a realisitc perspective..