Joy is BMW.

[Human]

For my part, I care more about the product than I do about the financial structure behind it.

Motorsport is a much more important part of the BMW image than "independence" have ever been.

I do not agree Doc. I have changed from Mercedes-Benz to BMW after they became DaimlerChrysler...I just could not take it! I felt the M-B brand was diluted and that M-B image was ruined. I really wrote letter upon letter explaining to the DC board how I felt, I was a Benz man, I had everything from MB diecast models, clothing, cuff links, hundreds of books, screen savers etc. and my 2nd W203 C180 Kompressor FL.

I wanted PURE, test drive a E46 325ci...2003...never looked backed! BMW from there on...sad thing is...If DC did not happen I would have probably never test drove a BMW.

 

[Sayyaaf]

I am really curious: does Evo's and Subaru's suck at the tracks ? they are turbo'd and designed for tracks, so how do they perform ?

 

[klier]

LOL what a post klier.

Sorry dude, I am getting irritated by Betty again and am unfairly bashing you. Sorry dude! I sincerely hope the M1 will work for your NA crazy veins
But it's not wrong to say you're quite vocal on this particular subject, no?

 

[AdvEvo]

Yes i am but thats because i am a pure ///Motorsport fan of highrev and rwd in a small chassis.

The M1 could for me be the car which can have it all.

It s not a money subject if i want smaller cars and that counts also for the GTS.

It s about what youre looking for in a car. I am far form status seeker. The GT3 clubsport concept i find fantastic. But i like cars which look like normal cars but underneath they are thru sporstcars. The M3 CSL is the perfect example of it.

Yes i am fed up about the turbo route. And it s not neccesary either. BMW is just want to milk the ///M brand to its fullest.

example x5 4.8is is 324 co2 the x5///M yes it s 325 co2. Turbo is done only to get more easy money if it s for low co2 why on earth bring 760li and x5///M en even x6///M

So yes i am fed up about ///M going turbo route it far from fair to it s ///M enthusiasts.

Yes evo is fun yes sti fun i have had both. When i lived in sweden i would have one again. But i prefer high rev engines which can be steered with throttle thru corners on road and track. It s best fun part for me to own such car and with turbo and lag lower throttle response my fun is over.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

What do you want from me Betty? Another stupid conversation on why you think BMW sucks so much with all it's fans? Or what?

Er...no.

When the notice came a couple of months ago that only like 500 GTS models (or something) were going to be build, I already knew Adv was not going to be one of the owners. That number is just too tiny..

So why did you use the fact that Andre had simply put an order in for the GTS as proof that I was wrong and that, I quote you, I was "sour"? THAT is what I am annoyed at Klier.

 

[klier]

Ok, fair enough. You win. The M3 GTS is already sold out, and it was extremely hard to get one even if you had the money to throw at them.
So you weren't sour but realistic, and I was too optimistic, the story of my life with BMW

 

[chonkoa]

I am really curious: does Evo's and Subaru's suck at the tracks ? they are turbo'd and designed for tracks, so how do they perform ?

Bingo:a very good question that should put in chink in all these FI-not-as-good-NA talk.
The fact of the matter is; change is real and change is dynamic.
Refuse to change and you die.
Change too fast and leave a lot of people behind.
Change too slow and you get left behind.
BMW like any dynamic organisation understand this.
We better get used to it.

 

[Mr Robert]

Bingo:a very good question that should put in chink in all these FI-not-as-good-NA talk.

I think the main concerns are that BMW have not yet come to terms with the technology - overheat - and that the character in a FI engine is (still) very different from a NA one.

 

[HighestOfHigh]

I don't know why, but for some reason seeing Joy next to BMW annoys me. Everytime I see this thread I just get angry. Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something....

 

[adeel2010]

I don't know why, but for some reason seeing Joy next to BMW annoys me. Everytime I see this thread I just get angry. Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something....

You're not alone. "Joy" gives BMW a terrible jolly image, completely different from the badass image "ultimate driving machine" used to give.

 

[chonkoa]

I think the main concerns are that BMW have not yet come to terms with the technology - overheat - and that the character in a FI engine is (still) very different from a NA one.

I have no problem with that at all. If that is the concern, then I believe it ought to be presented that way rather than what we constantly hear.
The idea that they(BMW) have lost their way because they made an M version of the SUV or have decided to take FI path is fast becoming trite to me.
Porsche makes high performance SUV, and if my memory serves me well uses FI extensively.
The most expensive car the BV uses FI as well...
I just can't understand the angst with BMW.

 

[klier]

I don't know why, but for some reason seeing Joy next to BMW annoys me. Everytime I see this thread I just get angry. Maybe I'm just in a bad mood or something....

No, most people are having this reaction. BMW fans included.

 

[rollo]

The BMW marketing brain-trust would have us believe that it is a very successful campaign that targets non-traditional BMW customers.

For this traditional BMW customer.......it's like sharp nails across a chalkboard!

 

[Mr Robert]

I have no problem with that at all. If that is the concern, then I believe it ought to be presented that way rather than what we constantly hear.
The idea that they(BMW) have lost their way because they made an M version of the SUV or have decided to take FI path is fast becoming trite to me.
Porsche makes high performance SUV, and if my memory serves me well uses FI extensively.
The most expensive car the BV uses FI as well...
I just can't understand the angst with BMW.

Like I said, those are, I think, the main reasons. And then people get upset because these issues are not addressed. People who used to buy M know what they want and that is not limp mode and less than perfect response.

Nothing wrong, per se, with building 2,300 kgs SUV:s with automatic grearboxes, 4WD and FI engines under a brand best known for the opposite. That had to happen, in order to make money.

 

[Sunny]

^How many M turbo engines do you know that go into limp mode?

 

[Mr Robert]

^How many M turbo engines do you know that go into limp mode?

How many BMW turbo engines do you know about that don't?

Point is, some are concerned and we have yet to see something that could ease their mind. I have no problem with FI engines as long as they are up to the job.

 

[Sunny]

How many BMW turbo engines do you know about that don't?

Point is, some are concerned and we have yet to see something that could ease their mind. I have no problem with FI engines as long as they are up to the job.

So let them make it and if it sucks, come cry/rant/bitch at that point. I am sure this forum will still be there.

 

[Mr Robert]

So let them make it and if it sucks, come cry/rant/bitch at that point. I am sure this forum will still be there.

Can you imagine the headlines:

"New M3 can't handle a couple of laps of spirited driving on track - unless it is freezing cold"

"Limp mode, it's here, get used to it"

"De-turbo kits available for all M models"

 

[martinbo]

One of my best mate's 335i has spent well over a month in total in the BMW shop for turbo-trouble. The problem is still not resolved.

In fact, BMW's track record in SA when it comes to turbos is less than glowing. 335i and the E46 320d red-dot, black dot turbo saga.

Up here at altitude (1600 m on average) and in hot conditions, turbos over-speed and go pop! It has not only happened to BMWs, VAG has also suffered malaise at the hands of 1.8Ts, and notoriously, the 1.9 TDI engines. But this is an altogether different discussion for a tech-talk thread.

The simple fact is, BMW, for all their engineering prowess, clearly lack the turbocharging experience and machine hours to cover all of the ambient conditions and permutations that lead to a reduction in performance (limp-mode) or turbo failure. It will come right, no doubt, but at a cost to guinea pig customers. Oh JOY.

 

[EnI]

Original M1 racing version cars (Procar) were all turbocharged.

So ... Don't mix a standard engine with the M one. 335i / 135i etc is not a racing track car. 335is is closer to that - more modified for track environment. Stock 35i is not - it wasn't the aim of 35i to be a race / track car.
While M FI engines are designed to last on a track as well. M1, M3, M5, M6 ... (and even X5M / X6M) will prove that.

Not only the joy is futureproof, it's also techproof.

Joy is BMW. Regardless the time, regardless the tech, regardless the shape.