Comparison tests How Does the Alfa 4C Stack Up Against the Toyota GT 86 and Porsche Cayman?
- Thread starter Rainer271
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^Never driven the GT-86 on the track just the road when my painter/decorator arrived in his and its odd but as a road car I wasn't won over, it's got plenty of go when nailing it but it lacked torque so it's not a relaxing drive, much more a weekend car than a daily driver which has been backed up by him selling his 8 months later and getting a GTI.
On the track its whole setup appears to be about fun rather than speed, you take this car to the track to enjoy yourself rather than set times so my opinion is that if you have excess to a track the GT-86 makes sense otherwise there are much better allrounders for similar money.
On the track its whole setup appears to be about fun rather than speed, you take this car to the track to enjoy yourself rather than set times so my opinion is that if you have excess to a track the GT-86 makes sense otherwise there are much better allrounders for similar money.
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- Derek
Curious to know why did your painter arrived in a Toyota 86? My friend has his for almost a year now as his daily driver, not a word of complain from him. Also it will be nice if you can share a photo or two, perhaps write up a short review, since you have access to a large variety of cars. We will like you to share more of your experience with this forum.
^I no longer have the photos of the car as it was quite a while ago but I did post them on here at the time. The car itself obviously wasn't his work vehicle, even you wouldn't expect that but he just found it's performance tiresome.
Each to their own your friend is clearly enjoying the car were as my painter found its lack of torque an issue.
Each to their own your friend is clearly enjoying the car were as my painter found its lack of torque an issue.
RS2000 4X4
Precision Pilot
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I cant say exactly why but I really am starting to dislike the video's of Autocar... whereas I really do like the video's of Chris Harris.
Considering the Alfa, I havent driven one but I really do like the looks of it. It looks special, a bit mini Ferrari so to speak. Yes the engine is a small 4 cylinder but that means I could afford one (Insurance in Belgium is cheaper when the engine is small) and I guess in time you could do work on the engine yourself, whereas a 12 cylinder will need more of a specialists concern.
I think the route Alfa has taken with its 4C deserves more appriciation and respect. My 2 cents.
Considering the Alfa, I havent driven one but I really do like the looks of it. It looks special, a bit mini Ferrari so to speak. Yes the engine is a small 4 cylinder but that means I could afford one (Insurance in Belgium is cheaper when the engine is small) and I guess in time you could do work on the engine yourself, whereas a 12 cylinder will need more of a specialists concern.
I think the route Alfa has taken with its 4C deserves more appriciation and respect. My 2 cents.
mini_cooper4
Autotechnik Ace
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I don't like Sutcliffe.
Autocar isn't worth watching/reading lately.
Autocar isn't worth watching/reading lately.
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- Derek
I don't seem to be able to find your post or photos of the 86 you drove, can you help me find it?
Baron Grüner
Bavarian Cruiser
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I dont think that too-wide-for-itself thingy should even be mentioned in the same sentence with the cayman.
nice weight reduction tho
nice weight reduction tho
I can't seem to find it either so maybe I was wrong and didn't post the pictures at all, the car was only just out here and his was the first in Northern Ireland.
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- Martin
Whilst Autocar as a publication might be on the payroll of a couple of "British" marques, there's little doubt that their road test team is very skilled and experienced. Can't fault them there...
The 4C is an overpriced, over-engineered(body), under-engineered(drivetrain) rolling contradiction. Its twin-clutch gearbox doesn't stand up to scrutiny when viewed against German equivalents. It's 1750cc turbo engine is nothing more than middle of the road - a far cry from the days when Alfa's engines were revered for their zest and response. It doesn't have a proper limited slip differential - the Toyota has an excellent Torsen variety as standard - and it simply doesn't have enough front end grip to leverage the benefits possible from a mid-engined layout. Autocar aren't the first to note or complain about this.
The Toyobaru BRZ-86 is unique. Yes, it's lacking in torque - for now - but as a driving instrument for keen enthusiasts there's nothing like it on the road at that price. The new BMW 220i will be the closest and most likely comparator.
The Cayman - well, it's just such an incredibly complete sportscar. Still the benchmark in spite of its premium. You do pay for quality after all.
The 4C is an overpriced, over-engineered(body), under-engineered(drivetrain) rolling contradiction. Its twin-clutch gearbox doesn't stand up to scrutiny when viewed against German equivalents. It's 1750cc turbo engine is nothing more than middle of the road - a far cry from the days when Alfa's engines were revered for their zest and response. It doesn't have a proper limited slip differential - the Toyota has an excellent Torsen variety as standard - and it simply doesn't have enough front end grip to leverage the benefits possible from a mid-engined layout. Autocar aren't the first to note or complain about this.
The Toyobaru BRZ-86 is unique. Yes, it's lacking in torque - for now - but as a driving instrument for keen enthusiasts there's nothing like it on the road at that price. The new BMW 220i will be the closest and most likely comparator.
The Cayman - well, it's just such an incredibly complete sportscar. Still the benchmark in spite of its premium. You do pay for quality after all.
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
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I completely agree on the 4C being way overpriced. If the damm car costed 10k dollars/euros/pounds less than a Cayman, then it would had been perfect, but being at the same price bracket it's ridiculous, the Cayman is a real car while the Alfa is a naked, track toy.
Also agree on the gearbox. If their goal was a lightweight and very "analogue" (no power steering) feeling car, then why on the earth did they put a twin cluth 'box, and a mediocre one, to worsen things out. And then you have those headlights.
It seems Marchionne does everything possible to kill Alfa, releasing mediocre looking, half cook cars, doing meagre facelifts....
My last hope with Alfa is the upcoming (if ever) Spider developed along Mazda.
The Alfa's biggest problems are the three key elements that make a great track toy, 1/ instant throttle response 2/ manual gearbox 3/ good steering feel and sadly the car failed on all three. Price might have helped but ultimately these three failings would still be there.
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- Martin
Ooo, that's a very, very thin sliver of hope then. Alfa Romeo is a tragic figure of the modern automotive world. Even the most gorgeous halo car (the exquisite 8C) couldn't lift its utterly dodgy mainstream product range. It's depressing - for a car marque that was once one of the most adored. How ironic then that Alfa, who garnered critical acclaim for the Alfasud with its boxer engine, is eclipsed by the Japanese car maker who then re-wrote the book on making sensational H-4 engines. With a car costing half.
Gianclaudio
Aerodynamic Artisan
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Ooo, that's a very, very thin sliver of hope then. Alfa Romeo is a tragic figure of the modern automotive world. Even the most gorgeous halo car (the exquisite 8C) couldn't lift its utterly dodgy mainstream product range. It's depressing - for a car marque that was once one of the most adored. How ironic then that Alfa, who garnered critical acclaim for the Alfasud with its boxer engine, is eclipsed by the Japanese car maker who then re-wrote the book on making sensational H-4 engines. With a car costing half.
Alfa Romeo and Lancia, Martin. Sadly Marchionne it's all about money and is putting all the effort on Chrysler & Co. and has letf Alfa and Lancia in the dark.
I don't think the 4C is in any way a loser, but at that price point, it's going to be a collector's caprice rather than sales motivating flagship.
Like I said before, my last hope is bet on the Alfa/Mazda Spider. And @Deckhook , no, VAG isn't going to do any favour to Alfa. I prefer to see them dead before being a rebadged Skoda/Seat/VW
Who said anything about VAG in isolation, I think I said one of the big three which includes BMW and Mercedes too.
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