5 Series Geneva Preview: BMW Concept 5 Series GT

[LaArtist]

^Nothing?
its the same but slightly smaller and lower..

 

[Mr Robert]

^Nothing?
its the same but slightly smaller and lower..

I'd say the opposite, the GT is an old fart version of the 5-series while the R-class is more like a CLS-version of the GL-class. Not the same in any way.

I think we have had this discission before?

If what SCOTT says is true, that Mercedes is planning on a competitor for the 5 GT (I'm guessing it will be based on the current E-class) then not even Mercedes finds the 5 GT being something even close to the R-class.

 

[LaArtist]

^if they ditch the R and make a smaller
then no..
its like Volvo adapting to time.. not making the XC90 anymore..and replacing it with XC60..
Smaller cars sell better these days..

All i know is both cars are rather ugly and are pimped up people carriers....thats it

PS
Yes we had this discussion before..and this thread is abt the 7er..so lets stop..

 

[klier]

^^^ You're the one starting about it again, with your BMW complex

 

[Mr Robert]

All i know is both cars are rather ugly and are pimped up people carriers....thats it

Now, that is a well defined segment

 

[klier]

All i know is both cars are rather ugly and are pimped up people carriers....thats it

The R might be that, but the GT is a pimped F10 5er, and VERY, very, very far from a people mover.

 

[LaArtist]

^yes its a sportscar..
it will lap the ring in 7min flat with 5 on board and 8 bags..

all hail the new king GT5..

PS
Even if above was true..its still to ugly to buy..lol
And remember this is a concept..haha think about the day when it gets the diper and normal rimms..
Hallelulja

 

[Deleted member 25]

^yes its a sportscar..
it will lap the ring in 7min flat with 5 on board and 8 bags..

all hail the new king GT5..

PS
Even if above was true..its still to ugly to buy..lol
And remember this is a concept..haha think about the day when it gets the diper and normal rimms..
Hallelulja

Actually we already know how it will look and it looks better.

 

[LaArtist]

^right.. and im Santa Claus..

 

[martinbo]

^ There's nothing that BMW can do to make this car uglier than the disgusting looking R-Class. Sooo... guess that makes you Santa, Artist.

Hey Santa, can I have a BMW M3 for Xmas? Thanks in advance...

 

[LaArtist]

^Santa does not put gayness in his bag of gifts..
So no im sorry

PS
I never claimed that the R is a beauty..
So to top it is not something to brag about..

 

[Deleted member 25]

^right.. and im Santa Claus..

Did you at least take a look ?

 

[LaArtist]

^where ?
to my information we only have spy shots or this concept to go after..

if you have the production picture..then please share

 

[Merc1]

Oh no...this debate again. This is BMW's R-Class. Design is different, but its aimed at the same market segment. How in the world can someone sit here and say this isn't a people mover? What is the point of all the space in the rear then? Not the same in design as the R, but it is the same in theory...a people mover, sportier in the BMW tradition, aimed at affluent people who don't want a wagon or SUV. All the marketing garble in the world isn't going to change that.


M

 

[EnI]

Geez, by this definition every automobile is a people mover. What else does it moves around? Monkeys? Rabbits? No, people.

"People mover" or MPV has completely different construction / layout - check eg. the R-class cabin. Especially the LWB version.

Eg. Seats on trails, flat floor, monospace layout (cabin & cargo space are one single place) etc. Those are main MPV characteristics. And R-class has them all.

R-class is one fancy van / MPV. Mercedes even calls it "Sports Utility Vehicle Tourer".

But ... by its layout the 5er GT is a sedan, or more precisely: a fastback (by design) ... yet not an ordinary fastback but a raised one. Making it a crossover fastback. Yet definitely not a van or MPV or "people's mover".

It's a vehicle that's really hard to describe.


****

And one more very important difference from R-class: R-class was designed to be an SUV alternative yet not so a niche vehicle but MB planed to make it mainstream (just they did with ML). Therefore they went & designed a completely new car - R&D costs were quite high. But they miscalculated something. And they expected way too much from this vehicle.

****

While 5er GT is just a variant of 5-series, R&D was relatively inexpensive ... and it's planned to be a niche vehicle, with no real intention to become a mainstream. Therefore the production plan is quite modest: 5er GT sales representing only max. 20% of all 5-series sales.

So, 5er GT is not there to be sold in huge numbers ... it's an exotic car for a very specific population ... a low-volume niche vehicle. Just like eg. X6.

Some of you just don't get is that all the SAC, GT etc niche crossovers will represent only a tiny portion of annual BMW vehicle sales. And it's planned to be so. Yes, there will be quite some of such vehicles available, but in very low numbers though.

 

[Deleted member 25]

^where ?
to my information we only have spy shots or this concept to go after..

if you have the production picture..then please share

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[Merc1]

Yawn....same old marketing nonsense.

And one more very important difference from R-class: R-class was designed to be an SUV alternative yet not so a niche vehicle but MB planed to make it mainstream (just they did with ML). Therefore they went & designed a completely new car - R&D costs were quite high. But they miscalculated something. And they expected way too much from this vehicle.

Not exactly, it shares all the hard points with the ML and GL, so not a completely new vehicle, its a variant of the same platform.

It's a vehicle that's really hard to describe.

Which is exactly why I bet it will flop around like a fish out water in the U.S. market. If you can't explain it, then it needs to be beautiful and it ain't. At best its a cross between a 5-Series wagon and a X5, which is what the R was trying to do E-Class/ML cross. Something in between.

So, 5er GT is not there to be sold in huge numbers ... it's an exotic car for a very specific population ... a low-volume niche vehicle. Just like eg. X6.

I.E. We'll set the sale expectation numbers low so when it doesn't sell it can be called a "niche" vehicle and thus is still a success. Exotic car? OMG. What nonsense. We (BMW) won't make the same mistake Mercedes did by forecasting large sales numbers. BMW marketing is smart no doubt about that.


M

 

[SCOTT27]

Personally I will venture in with this opinion. You have not seen the 5er GT.

All you have seen is a static Concept Car with exagerrated design details such as special paint , and a specific allbeit Concept Car exclusive Interior. You have not seen the car move without camouflage and you have not seen the interior being used to advantage.

At BMW we call the 5er GT - "Moving Art", because there is really nothing quite like this in it's segment what you see is a visual Concept but what you have not seen the kinetic side of the car of how everything connects beautifully. If you have seen the car at either Geneva or Shanghai then you have an opinion of being upfront and centre with the idea.

5er GT is intent on being an exclusive automobile it's not about volume so the engineering is based on making the car comfortable and refined with a sporting dynamic edge for the keen driver, So there is a lot of changes from the forthcoming 5er that are specific to the BMW 5er Gran Turismo.
BMW 5er Gran Turismo is a project established by Chris Bangles creativity Blue Sky project in which solutions to conventional vehicle choices are created both in design , requirement and concept .

The creative impulse directed by this department is not specifically come up with a design , this is more of a combined effort with design ,engineering , marketing and the client. In order to come up with the idea of the Progressive Activity Sedan a lot of thought and process went forward and backward before ideas were committed to paper.
the development process was lengthy as the idea to accomodate the passenger in something unique meant that we researched everything from Planes , Trains and Automobiles.

(Extracts) Taken from Schaffung Visual kinetische Art Chapter.
Concept to Reality : BMW 5er Gran Turismo.

 

[EnI]

Yawn....same old marketing nonsense.

Yawn back.

Not exactly, it shares all the hard points with the ML and GL, so not a completely new vehicle, its a variant of the same platform.

Still not a direct spin-off like eg. 5er GT or X6 ... which are just different shapes of the same core car. Therefore very cheap to develop & produce.

Which is exactly why I bet it will flop around like a fish out water in the U.S. market. If you can't explain it, then it needs to be beautiful and it ain't. At best its a cross between a 5-Series wagon and a X5, which is what the R was trying to do E-Class/ML cross. Something in between.

5er GT isn't targeting US market primarily - like MB did with R-class. 5er GT aims at aging population & fleet buyers in Europe mainly.
So, just like the 5er touring (which is definitely much more popular in Europe) - I guess the 5er GT will also be a very marginal model in the US market. With moderate to very slow sales. Since the car is a fastback / hatchback - a shape Americans are not really in love with.

I hope you don't suggest that slow sales in the US market would (at least for you) mean the car is a failure.

Since not all BMW models are targeting US market but other markets around the globe. And despite slow sales in US market (or not even for sale there) such cars sell well worldwide. Or by your definition US market sales success is imperative for particular model's sales success in general? I hope not. Since not all markets are equally important for a certain model. And sometimes - oh, what a shock - US market is not the first in mind when creating a new model.

I.E. We'll set the sale expectation numbers low so when it doesn't sell it can be called a "niche" vehicle and thus is still a success. Exotic car? OMG. What nonsense. We (BMW) won't make the same mistake Mercedes did by forecasting large sales numbers. BMW marketing is smart no doubt about that.

It's not just a PR, it's a production / sales plan. Do you think every car should sell in hundred thousands of units per year to be called a success? You know nothing about car business obviously.

Yes, such hard describable crossovers (eg. SAC, PAS) are definitely exotic & niche. Or you stick to stereotypes that only supercars can be exotic?

And again: if you don't need such a car, or don't (want to) to get it's point & purpose then that's your problem, not manufacturer's. There are people out there (not many though) who want or need such a car. And they are willing to pay a premium to get it.


*****


And most important fact: such crossovers are a success from the very begining. Since EVERY car sold brings in the profit. Therefore such a car can't be a failure at all - at least from the business point of view.

The car is a failure when it can't make a profit at all - even if it sells in large numbers. Since what's the point selling a car which doesn't generate profit or don't reach the profit breaking point (at a certain total sales number during the lifecycle).

 

[Merc1]

Still not a direct spin-off like eg. 5er GT or X6 ... which are just different shapes of the same core car. Therefore very cheap to develop & produce.

So what? Whats the point? The R wasn't designed/built as a stand alone product. Again it shares all of its guts with the ML and GL and most of its interior so this expense you keep talking about is pretty much nonsense.

5er GT isn't targeting US market primarily - like MB did with R-class. 5er GT aims at aging population & fleet buyers in Europe mainly.
So, just like the 5er touring (which is definitely much more popular in Europe) - I guess the 5er GT will also be a very marginal model in the US market. With moderate to very slow sales. Since the car is a fastback / hatchback - a shape Americans are not really in love with.

Nice disclaimer for expected slow sales here.

I hope you don't suggest that slow sales in the US market would (at least for you) mean the car is a failure.

A failure here yes. What other region would I be concerned with?

Since not all BMW models are targeting US market but other markets around the globe. And despite slow sales in US market (or not even for sale there) such cars sell well worldwide. Or by your definition US market sales success is imperative for particular model's sales success in general? I hope not. Since not all markets are equally important for a certain model. And sometimes - oh, what a shock - US market is not the first in mind when creating a new model.

Just explained this in above statement.

It's not just a PR, it's a production / sales plan. Do you think every car should sell in hundred thousands of units per year to be called a success? You know nothing about car business obviously.

Nope. Here is the test, do you think the X6 has been a "success" here?

Yes, such hard describable crossovers (eg. SAC, PAS) are definitely exotic & niche. Or you stick to stereotypes that only supercars can be exotic?

There is nothing exotic about a damn wagon/crossover/hatchback thing sold at a BMW dealership or Mercedes dealership.

And again: if you don't need such a car, or don't (want to) to get it's point & purpose then that's your problem, not manufacturer's. There are people out there (not many though) who want or need such a car. And they are willing to pay a premium to get it.

Has nothing to do with me, I wouldn't want one if it were free. Really? Keep thinking that. That is the same thing Mercedes thought about the R-Class.

And most important fact: such crossovers are a success from the very begining. Since EVERY car sold brings in the profit. Therefore such a car can't be a failure at all - at least from the business point of view.

WOW....Denial 101. Really? Does this apply to the R-Class too? Can't wait to see the answer to this!

The car is a failure when it can't make a profit at all - even if it sells in large numbers. Since what's the point selling a car which doesn't generate profit or don't reach the profit breaking point (at a certain total sales number during the lifecycle).

Right and if this BMW doesn't sell and it has to have huge incentives on it here it will be just that, a failure. If this happens.


M