EVO: CotY 2007 *The result**spoiler*

[martinbo]

Civic Type-R 6th???? LOL

For me: 1st 997 GT3 RS, 2nd BMW M3, 3rd Audi R8

Seriously - that's exactly where I guessed the Type-R would come. Meaden raved about it in his first drive report. Remember, this is not the Civic Type-R hatch that the rest of the world gets; this is the JDM market-only 4 door saloon with independent rear suspension and a real four pot screamer. Meaden says it's up there with the Honda Integra Type-R - widely recognised as the best handling FWD car ever.

 

[Mr Robert]

Seriously - that's exactly where I guessed the Type-R would come. Meaden raved about it in his first drive report. Remember, this is not the Civic Type-R hatch that the rest of the world gets; this is the JDM market-only 4 door saloon with independent rear suspension and a real four pot screamer. Meaden says it's up there with the Honda Integra Type-R - widely recognised as the best handling FWD car ever.

Agreed! Damn pitty that it is a JDM model only.

 

[DeDe]

Seriously - that's exactly where I guessed the Type-R would come. Meaden raved about it in his first drive report. Remember, this is not the Civic Type-R hatch that the rest of the world gets; this is the JDM market-only 4 door saloon with independent rear suspension and a real four pot screamer. Meaden says it's up there with the Honda Integra Type-R - widely recognised as the best handling FWD car ever.

Well, then I say it may be a great car Any info about it?

 

[Steve]

Hers some late night maths evo style


IF CLK63 Black > E92 M3 AND C63 > CLK63 Black THEN C63 > E92 M3

 

[Centurion]

Hmm I expected the R8 to win or stand on 2nd place. On the other hand I'm dead happy that the GT3RS won, it's a collectors item. The F430 Scuderia is amazing too and the whole list is very logical, although I didn't expect the CLK BS to be ranked higher than the M3. The DBS didn't get much love which is well in it's nature since AM cars have never been true sports cars.

 

[bmer]

Hers some late night maths evo style


IF CLK63 Black > E92 M3 AND C63 > CLK63 Black THEN C63 > E92 M3

C 63 > CLK 63 but is C 63 > CLK 63 BS?

 

[Mr Robert]

Hers some late night maths evo style

IF CLK63 Black > E92 M3 AND C63 > CLK63 Black THEN C63 > E92 M3

Really looking forward to see how that odd mathematics work out in practice!

I can't imagine anyone in their right mind deciding on the C63 above the CLK63 BS especially under circumstances like this, when the price of the car is of no interest.

So, price put apart, the CLK BS is above the M3 and it should be. BS is more of a CSL counterpart. That is all we know of Evo-mathematics this far. The equation might be completed at a later stage!

 

[Mr Robert]

Hmm I expected the R8 to win or stand on 2nd place. On the other hand I'm dead happy that the GT3RS won, it's a collectors item. The F430 Scuderia is amazing too and the whole list is very logical, although I didn't expect the CLK BS to be ranked higher than the M3. The DBS didn't get much love which is well in it's nature since AM cars have never been true sports cars.

Im with you regarding the R8, damn nice car. But if you look at the results the R8 is positioned very high considering that the cars above it (and some that it positioned itself above) are cars like the Scuderia and the GT3 RS. Same thing with Black Series above M3. Both Audi and BMW have done very well in this comparison and I think they would have done even better if they were compared to the ordinary Mercedes CLK 63, Ferrari 430 and Porsche GT3. Maybe the positioning would have been the same (maybe not between M3 and CLK63) but the difference in points would have been smaller.

 

[Centurion]

Im with you regarding the R8, damn nice car. But if you look at the results the R8 is positioned very high considering that the cars above it (and some that it positioned itself above) are cars like the Scuderia and the GT3 RS. Same thing with Black Series above M3. Both Audi and BMW have done very well in this comparison and I think they would have done even better if they were compared to the ordinary Mercedes CLK 63, Ferrari 430 and Porsche GT3. Maybe the positioning would have been the same (maybe not between M3 and CLK63) but the difference in points would have been smaller.

Don't worry about it. If there is one magazine that is good at judging cars then it must be EVO. When they grade cars they take everything into consideration, even price and what other cars the money can get you. That is reason why we see the Gallardo SL at 7th spot. They most likely enjoyed the car but didn't think it was worth all that money and that there are much better and cheaper alternatives.

 

[Mr Robert]

Don't worry about it. If there is one magazine that is good at judging cars then it must be EVO. When they grade cars they take everything into consideration, even price and what other cars the money can get you. That is reason why we see the Gallardo SL at 7th spot. They most likely enjoyed the car but didn't think it was worth all that money and that there are much better and cheaper alternatives.

I do not think they put too much consiederation in the price, never mentioned it other than they might not have choosen this car over that one if the money was an issue (one of the testers did not even know that the BS was twice he money over the M3). They say it is simply a test to find out what car is the best drivers car. Nothing else (even if they usually put price into the equation when judging a car).

Quite liberating actually

Edit: Word on the SL is that the brakes simply are not up to the job, lacking feel. Furthermore they feel that it should have been rear wheel drive and thereby a bit lighter.

 

[Zafiro]

Scuderia, RS, CLK63 are all on R-tires and they are more trackcars than streetcars. So on top five, three of the cars were on R-tires and are more for the track than on the street.
In my eyes R8 and M3 impress me the most since they werent on R-tires. M3 is also the only top 5 car with a proper backseat to transport 2 adults in comfort

 

[LaArtist]

^gotta give it to you there..
you really know how to make the best of a situation..
impressive

 

[Bruce]

Edit: Word on the SL is that the brakes simply are not up to the job, lacking feel.

Indeed. They Superleggera is also criticized for a soggy brake pedal after continued hard use.

 

[Centurion]

Scuderia, RS, CLK63 are all on R-tires and they are more trackcars than streetcars. So on top five, three of the cars were on R-tires and are more for the track than on the street.
In my eyes R8 and M3 impress me the most since they werent on R-tires. M3 is also the only top 5 car with a proper backseat to transport 2 adults in comfort

EVO judge the handling of these cars and tires don't have that much of an impact unless your timing the car around a track or something. But the M3 did very well considering that it's a spacious GT.

 

[Sunny]

EVO judge the handling of these cars and tires don't have that much of an impact unless your timing the car around a track or something. But the M3 did very well considering that it's a spacious GT.

Tires do make a big difference in handling. When ever I swap to cups (from Michelin PS2), I can tell the difference after the first turn - there is way more turn in grip and things are way more immediate. And once the tires warm up - it is at a whole different level.

 

[Centurion]

Tires do improve grip but they don't affect rigidy, body roll, how the car steer and the cars dynamics. Give the CLK63 BS better tires than the GT3RS and Porsche will still give you a more sporty and thrilling experience.

I'm not saying that tires aren't important but they don't change the characteristic and formula of a car to a degree that makes a difference in joy and driving pleasure.

 

[Zafiro]

Fact remain that RS , Scuderia and BS are more trackoriented than many other cars on the list and at the same time by no mean are they any practical cars.
Like one famous carmaker says about their car thats on top 5 list: "designed for the racetrack, ready for the roadway" or "the ability to complete the most important journey: from the track into your garage".

 

[Sunny]

Tires do improve grip but they don't affect rigidy, body roll, how the car steer and the cars dynamics. Give the CLK63 BS better tires than the GT3RS and Porsche will still give you a more sporty and thrilling experience.

I'm not saying that tires aren't important but they don't change the characteristic and formula of a car to a degree that makes a difference in joy and driving pleasure.

I disagree. They do make a difference in the car's driving pleasure - I am saying this from personal experience having driven my car on: all weather tires, PS2 and Cups. They effect more than just the grip. The biggest difference is how immediately the car responds to your steering inputs, in fact that is the difference you feel even more than the difference in the grip level (which you only feel at the limit). This is because usually the sportier tires have much stiffer sidewall with way less "give" - so your steering inputs are more direct and immediate.

 

[bum-man]

Grasping at straws here I see.

 

[Mr Robert]

Grasping at straws here I see.

Who is?

I think it's not so much the tires even if the team says that for instance the Cooper would benefit from better tires and of course tires makes a huge difference in how a car behaves, not the track time. The things that separates the R8 and M3 from the BS, Scuderia and RS are obviousy not only the tires, look at the whole package. But as said before there are yet no RS-version of the R8 and no CSL-version of the M3.

Jsut look at the interior.

[image no longer available]media/1/20070720-ferrari-f430-scuderia-interior.jpg

[image no longer available]albums/porsche997gt3rs/porsche_997GT3RS_4c.sized.jpg

I think that about sums it up.

No evasions, just plain and simple conclusion that the RS8 and M3 are another type of cars and still managed to do so well. Good job! On the other hand no one says that a "RS8" or M3 CSL would have done better against any of the other three but it would have been more of an apples vs apples comparison. Look for instance at the SL which failed even if it should have been right up there... but with both the R8 and the M3 the only few negative words were that they both seemed a bit civilized.