EVO: BMW 7-series: the ultimate drifting machine

[Mr Robert]

Aren't 7 series owners supposed to ride in the back anyway? Marketing a 2 ton limo/taxi as a driver's car ain't clever, imo. It doesn't surprise me that Merc's S-class owns this segment.

The whole point of this thread was to point out what can be done with today's technology. Almost everything can be made to seem like it is a "true" drivers car. What it also shows, like martinbo, so eloquently pointed out, is that said technology makes life a lot easier for people who wants to create 7 cars from one. None of the 7 cars are going to, when push comes to shove, behave like they should have, should they have been built for their purpose...

Naive little me thaught this might be used to do the opposite - build cars that at their hart was what they should be but having their edges cut off by electronic means to make them more civilized (known as the Porsche route).

Well, in the end, this article shows us that even a 7-series can be made to behave like a drivers car, at least to Scandinavians, and in such an application it serves its purpose, maintaining the image. I just wish it would be used in the Porsche way too.

 

[klier]

What is perfect weight distribution?

You again huh j/k Defending your new purchase, it's perfectly understandable

 

[EnI]

What is perfect weight distribution?

Don't believe all the hype BMW Marketing tells you. "Almost Perfect Weight Distribution" and "Ultimate Driving Machine" are just BMW advertising slogans. Not universal truths or laws of physics. Weight distribution changes dramatically under braking and acceleration too. Weight distribution should not be confused with handling. I have to commend BMW marketing for convincing so many people that 50:50 (or rather near 50:50 as they actually say) is the "perfect" weight distribution. Always! But what exactly is it perfect for? Balancing on the edge of a cliff?. Maybe if I fill the tank of the S4 and put some luggage in the boot I will notice some miraculous change and be able to answer that question myself. No wait, maybe I should throw some lead in the front of my Porsche to get nearer to the magical 50:50 (or is it 52:48?, you can tell I am enjoying this)

Aren't 7 series owners supposed to ride in the back anyway? Marketing a 2 ton limo/taxi as a driver's car ain't clever, imo. It doesn't surprise me that Merc's S-class owns this segment.

CM stuff:

Yes, UDM is pure marketing term. As said many times in most markets around the world BMW brand is traditionally based (and advertised & promoted) on pleasure & joy associated with driving BMW cars (Sheer Driving Pleasure, Freude am Fahren etc)

Why UDM in US market? Because at that time marketers said it wouldn't be wise to promote joy in that particular (mostly conservative & traditionalistic) segment, and there were no really sporty sedans available - so the take an advantage of that.
But be honest - BMW hardly ever was an ultimated driving machine - since Porsche, Ferrari, Jaguars, Astons etc were much more that than BMW (at least at that time).
But yes - BMW sedans were extremely agile & nimble compared to the other sedans- and therefore the slogan. Which caters well to the customers who wanted - beside a sports car like Ferrari or Porsche - also a sporty sedan luxury sedan in their garage.

And since the slogan worked they haven't changed it.

In other markets - as said - BMW is rather associated of (driving) joy & pleasure. Which is a bit more broad term than just being an ultimate machine for driving. Since driving pleasure can also mean different things to different drivers. But all based on performance, agility & dynamism - of course.




My personal opinion:

50:50 weight distribution.

I'm not an engineer, but as far as I know balanced things brings more natural behavior - at least in physics (eg. mechanics).

Yet today when electronics is so much developed I don't think there is much difference between 50:50, or 53:47 weight distribution - since the electronic systems can compensate a lot. Perhaps 50:50 leads to less electronic intervenes, but that doesn't mean 53:47 is much worse. If any at all.

So - as proved with an article above - today the mechanics is just of a secondary nature. It's just a hardware - it's a platform - but electronics & software are the things that make that hardware being OK, good, very good or excellent.

Germans were overridden by Japanese when electronic revolution kicked in. Since Germans were excellent machine / hardware producers - having excellent mechanic engineers. And in the electronic world they were beaten by Japanese in particular (electronic engineering) , and by Americans as well (software, programming, elec. engineering ... yet Americans didn't translated that advantage well in their car industry, unfortunately).

But today the Germans are almost on par ... have invested heavily in electronics & software development. So ... today bot parts are extremely important: electronics & mechanical hardware. Only the best 6 optimal combination leads to a near perfect product (engineering wise).

As Martin said: yes, we are in the new era ... when with a touch of a button you can change a behavior of your car completely. And if hardware allows that - your car can transform from ultra soft&comfortable to ultra hard&sporty vehicle.

The differences will be very thin - mostly artificially produced by marketing people ... for the sake of brand position & perception ... While the product will be very much alike ... And with hacking CUs in the car I'm sure it will be very easy to transfer your MB into a BMW, or vice versa.




Good, or sad?

IMO good ... but definitely less pure & romantic.
But we already know that: we are living in an superficially world today ... And the future seems to be even more superficial. Much more about marketing & perception that the real-world stuff.

 

[Mr Robert]

Good, or sad?

IMO good ... but definitely less pure & romantic.
But we already know that: we are living in an superficially world today ... And the future seems to be even more superficial. Much more about marketing & perception that the real-world stuff.

I think, based on other, maybe not fully comparable, cases, that a common move towards "all cars behave the same", will create a demand for "real" products as well. Question is which manufacturers will have the strenght (strentght of image, that is, because these products will be expensive) to meet this demand when every car in their lineup is built from the same base...

 

[EnI]

I think, based on other, maybe not fully comparable, cases, that a common move towards "all cars behave the same", will create a demand for "real" products as well. Question is which manufacturers will have the strenght (strentght of image, that is, because these products will be expensive) to meet this demand when every car in their lineup is built from the same base...

Sure there will still be "real" products ... But not the core ones. Too risky.

I'm sure some niche cars will be able to cater the demand for "pure & romantic" products ... If the company finds some business interest in it at all ... Since I'm sure after this crisis the companies will be even less romantic than before ... Since I'm not sure banks will be interested in giving loans to companies who rather do some romantic stuff than doing business.

IMO romantic stuff in business are over ... Therefore I see some renaissance of small & independent coach-building brands (like Fisker) - very niche to cater very specific tastes. Very exclusive - high added value. Perhaps some private investors (especially from "new world" ) will be interested in that ...

 

[Mr Robert]

Sounds about what happened in the HiFi industry by the introduction of the CD media.

Well, there are bound to be different levels of this mainstreaming business. Take the 3-series vs M3 example. The M3s have always been very different from the standard models and I think (and hope) that the current version will not be the last one of this philosophy. Imagine an M3 with a big engine (same as all other M cars) an LSD and different springs and dampers.

Core products have never been that hearty. Furthermore, here is nothing romantic about meeting a demand - unless you are a really keen capitalist

 

[ACE]

You again huh j/k Defending your new purchase, it's perfectly understandable

What are you pretending to be complaining about? I think you were trying to create some controversy / bait by referring to the S4 vs 335i . You know that I spent a lot of time researching that topic. I was just pointing out what I consider to be an inaccuracy in your post.

I am not here to defend my purchases, I buy what suits my needs best within my budget. I am here to discuss the facts, hopefully learn something and be entertained. I don't mind if people disagree with me. I respect other people's opinions but reserve the right to question those opinions.

If you post things that I don't agree with, then be prepared for (civilised) debate.

PS. Moore's Law, linear? Notice anything about the calibration of the y-axis in your chart? If that's linear then I can make just about any 2 factor relationship linear.

 

[klier]

Good to have these conversations bro, in a civilised way!
Many happy miles with the fatastic (and as it stands now, better) S4!!!

 

[Potential]

Haven't tried drifting my 750i, nor will I, but I can tell you it brings a smile to my dial at 3am when I'm in a serious rush to get to work.

 

[Mr Robert]

Haven't tried drifting my 750i, nor will I, but I can tell you it brings a smile to my dial at 3am when I'm in a serious rush to get to work.

No mysteries there