CLK-Class (C209) CLK63 AMG Black Series!

[Imhotep Evil]

..cause it will smoke most cars in everyday life.. including the 335.. and plus its more exclusive and so on..

Plus BMW is gay, jk...you forgot to mention.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

But for that price tag the AMG owner will face a M6 owner, with his state of the
art V10 and ruthlessly eficient SMG III gearbox.

The M6 cabrio is siginificantly more expensive than the CLK63 AMG cabrio in N. America. (I can't compare CLK63 coupe with M6 coupe because the CLK63 coupe is not available in N. America). And the CLK63 offers a more sophisticated high tech V8 compared to the M6's V10, with superior torque characteristics to allow for brisk acceleration without the need to rev as high as the M6 (in keeping with MB philosophy). You also get one of the world's fastest shifting automatic transmissions with 7 speeds.

But that's not the point. AMG and M cars are by their very nature much more expensive than their non-AMG counterparts. And in terms of on-track performance, the non-M 335i blows the CLK63 away in terms of value. THAT is a fact that BMW fans (especially 335i owners) can be proud of. Let's see what Audi/MB will have down the pipeline to counter this relatively cheap 335i.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

And the CLK63 offers a more sophisticated high tech V8 compared to the M6's V10, with superior torque characteristics to allow for brisk acceleration without the need to rev as high as the M6 (in keeping with MB philosophy). You also get one of the world's fastest shifting automatic transmissions with 7 speeds.

More sophisticated V8 ?!
And SMG III is even a faster shifter.

But that's not the point. AMG and M cars are by their very nature much more expensive than their non-AMG counterparts. And in terms of on-track performance, the non-M 335i blows the CLK63 away in terms of value. THAT is a fact that BMW fans (especially 335i owners) can be proud of. Let's see what Audi/MB will have down the pipeline to counter this relatively cheap 335i.

Why do we have bring on the 335i in this argument ?!

 

[PC Valkyrie]

More sophisticated V8 ?!
And SMG III is even a faster shifter.

Yes, go read the specs of the of the 6.2L V8 from AMG and you'll see. It's got a lot more new and innovative features that have never been used before in road cars. Yes, the SMGIII does shift faster, but it can also be a frustrating piece of machinery for everday driving when you're not reving to the heavens and not travelling at very high speeds (as indicated by many M5 owners on m5board.com).

Why do we have bring on the 335i in this argument ?!

Because when this thread was hijacked, somebody kept talking about how the cars like the 335i are superior to the CLK63.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Yes, go read the specs of the of the 6.2L V8 from AMG and you'll see. It's got a lot more new and innovative features that have never been used before in road cars.

Look no need for another war here. Nevertheless would not want to leave you with the impresion that the V8 has some greater degree of sophistication over BMWs V10.

Because when this thread was hijacked, somebody kept talking about how the cars like the 335i are superior to the CLK63.

Main was ideea was that the expensive CLK63, with some saw as an M6 killer wasn't able beat the 335i on a track, hell a Mazda 6 for that matter (in a test) .

 

[PC Valkyrie]

Hey, I don't view this as "war", just friendly debate.

And yes, I don't want you to think that the AMG's 6.2L V8 is less sophisticated than the 5.0 V10 from BMW M. On the contrary, the AMG engine DOES have more innovative features from an engineering point of view.

But back on topic.....other than the CLK63 black series looking cool, we don't know anything about how it will perform.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

And yes, I don't want you to think that the AMG's 6.2L V8 is less sophisticated than the 5.0 V10 from BMW M.

On the contrary, the AMG engine DOES have more innovative features from an engineering point of view.

How's that ?!
Please explain.

But back on topic.....other than the CLK63 black series looking cool, we don't know anything about how it will perform.

True, but it will be expensive.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Well...with the black series, you're paying more for it's exclusivity than you are for it's performance.

 

[LaArtist]

^second that..its exactly what ive been stressing this whole thread..

PS
LMAO imhotep..im sorry i forgot..
BMW is gay..haha..(jk)

 

[PC Valkyrie]

How's that ?!
Please explain.

There are the 3 features which are a world first or unique to the 6.2L V8 engine.

• Cylinder walls with a unique, revolutionary TWAS coating (twin-wire-arc-sprayed coating on the cylinder walls, a new process which produces outstandingly low friction), which has never been used before in a road car engine
• Completely new dual-length intake manifold with integral throttle flaps (patent pending)
• Vertical air ducts, valve control by bucket tappets

The specs (6.2L V8/5.0 V10)
Peak HP: 510/507
Peak torque: 630Nm/520Nm
Redline: 7200rpm/8250rpm
Compression ratio: 11.3:1/12.0:1
Weight: 199kg/240kg


In addition to the 3 novel features listed above, the AMG V8 engine is extremely light weight because of extensive use of aluminum and magnesium.

You can read about everything here (official press release):
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050713.001/country/gcf

or here for a more brief version from Edmund's Inside Line
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=106510

 

[Merc1]

And the point being, why ask such ridiculous prices for B.S./light-weight editions and don't give the people this with the standard AMG cars for a more resonable price. (Oh, M5 , M6 are also big and heavy)

Because they can, and BMW isn't the only the one that can do one-offs for more money. When you realize that a standard Mercedes or AMG product isn't trying to be a BMW clone the better off this board will be. They're giving a track ready car that still fits within what a Mercedes should be. Now this about the track times has gone on long enough, we all know a BMW is going to be superior on the track, its old news.

M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

There are the 3 features which are a world first or unique to the 6.2L V8 engine.

• Cylinder walls with a unique, revolutionary TWAS coating (twin-wire-arc-sprayed coating on the cylinder walls, a new process which produces outstandingly low friction), which has never been used before in a road car engine
• Completely new dual-length intake manifold with integral throttle flaps (patent pending)
• Vertical air ducts, valve control by bucket tappets

The specs (6.2L V8/5.0 V10)
Peak HP: 510/507
Peak torque: 630Nm/520Nm
Redline: 7200rpm/8250rpm
Compression ratio: 11.3:1/12.0:1
Weight: 199kg/240kg


In addition to the 3 novel features listed above, the AMG V8 engine is extremely light weight because of extensive use of aluminum and magnesium.

I don't see anything here to sugest that the V8 is more sophisticated than the V10.

You also didn't mentioned anything about BMWs Dual-Vanos, Valvetronic, the sophisticated engine management system and ionic current knock control, etc.

Why (isn't this unfair) ?!

The only advantage of the V8 is its weight, from what I see. I could add torque, but that again the V10 and SMG III were made each other.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Because they can, and BMW isn't the only the one that can do one-offs for more money. When you realize that a standard Mercedes or AMG product isn't trying to be a BMW clone the better off this board will be. They're giving a track ready car that still fits within what a Mercedes should be. Now this about the track times has gone on long enough, we all know a BMW is going to be superior on the track, its old news.

M

Let me ask you a question.

Consider you're an enthusiats. Now you could chose between a Porsche/BMW M or an AMG B.S. . The Porsche/BMW M have a proven reputation build thru decades, and their car (way) is cheaper, and with some proper tyres (think P Zero Corsas) could offer similar or better performance (on a track at least; think SLK55 B.S.).
Would chose the (cheaper) Porsche/BMW M car or the AMG B.S. ?!
(remember enthusiast, not drag boy or cruiser boy)

 

[SDNR]

Imhotep Evil,

reading your post, I was reminded of a phrase I heard an Australian comedian once say:

"Give the other end a go"

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Imhotep Evil,

reading your post, I was reminded of a phrase I heard an Australian comedian once say:

"Give the other end a go"

I could say the same about the Merc. boys.

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I don't see anything here to sugest that the V8 is more sophisticated than the V10.

You also didn't mentioned anything about BMWs Dual-Vanos, Valvetronic, the sophisticated engine management system and ionic current knock control, etc.

Why (isn't this unfair) ?!

The only advantage of the V8 is its weight, from what I see. I could add torque, but that again the V10 and SMG III were made each other.

Please read my post about the 6.2 L V8 again. I listed features which were UNIQUE to the 6.2L V8 and are true innovations for road car engines, in general. This is why I make the claim that there are more innovative engineering features in the AMG engine. I didn't bother listing the more typical things like variable valve timing (which is what BMW calls bi-VANOS), and the "sophisticated" engine management computer in the 6.2L V8 which is even newer than the one in the 5.0L V10.

The one significant feature which the 5.0L V10 has which the 6.2L V8 doesn't have is individual throttle bodies for each of its 10 cylinders.

Nonetheless, I see that you like to compare numbers to gauge "sophistication". If you go by that, the 6.2L V8 has higher HP and MUCH HIGHER torque with 2 fewer cylinders and a much lighter engine. The only number which the 5.0L V10 wins at is the HP/Litre of displacement.

Heck, the 6.2 L V8 in the E63 is even more fuel efficient than the 5.0L V10 in the M5.

Frankly, if they transplanted the 6.2L V8 into the awesome chassis of the M5, that would be one heck of a car, better than either E63 or M5.

 

[LaArtist]

Wow that would be interesting.. E63 Engined M5..

 

[bum-man]

The only number which the 5.0L V10 wins at is the HP/Litre of displacement.

That particular statistic is made irrelavant by today's standards as high dispacement engines have proven that they can be lighter than low displacement engines. The only real advantage I see the V10 has going for it is it's ability to revv 1k higher, it allows the M5 to be geared lower which virtually negates the torque advantage the M156 had over it. Other than that the M5's V10 will get poorer gas mileage, be more tempermental, wont have as high of a tuning potential, and will always be considerably heavier.

As for...
Variable valve timing (Vanos, VVti, V-tec, what have you) has been part of the auto industry for decades, even the cheapest Hondas have it these days.
Individual throttle bodies, even the low tech Viper engine has that...

Let's not forget that the M156 is capable of pushing over 600hp and droping a bit of extra poundage by incorporating dry sump and redesigning the intake and restrictive header system. Not to even mention give it a proper transmission (something that both M5 and M6 have, although, it's not too reliable) so they can give the engine a couple hundred more revs. Perhaps even CGI will be the next upgrade of the M156, thats a 10% increase in power right there. So who knows what AMG will have in store in coming years with this engine.

Also..
It will be interesting what tuners will come up with for the M156 at the SEMA show. Kleemann just released a 20hp ECU upgrade...Just waiting on the full intake and exhaust kits.

 

[Sunny]

we all know a BMW is going to be superior on the track, its old news.

M

Apperntly now even Mazda's are superior on the track. Seriously, I can understand a S or a E class being slower, but, heck, the CLK is a sports coupe.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

To PC Valkyrie and bum-man


OMG, what is this BS ?!
Has this becomed the bash_the_S85 - praise_the_V8 tread ?!


1. Higher HP ?!

The engine if freaking limited to 507 HP, and contraire to what some MB fanatics might belive is capable of more.


2. More torque and 2 less cyclinders, yeah, but it also has 1.2 extra litre of displacement.


3. Rev. 1k higher ?!
Since when is 10000 RPMs just 1k higher than 7200 ?!


4.

it allows the M5 to be geared lower which virtually negates the torque advantage the M156 had over it

Finally you understand the philosophy behing it, and why the SMG III was made.

Now can you understand why an M5 leaves the 63 AMG behind after 160 Km/h (100 Mph) ?!


5.

Let's not forget that the M156 is capable of pushing over 600hp...

So is the S85.
You didn't really belived it was a 507 HP engine, now did you ?!
Snitzer I belive have a exhaust + software solution that gives up 90 HP.

6.

Frankly, if they transplanted the 6.2L V8 into the awesome chassis of the M5, that would be one heck of a car, better than either E63 or M5.

Nope:

- first, the torque advantage is negated by the fact that the S85 can be geared lower (and it comes with the really fast SMG III witch really love the S85 since they were made for one another);
- second, the M5 has an advantage at speed over 100mph/160 kmh witch would now be lost (torque finally kicks in);
- third downshifting: no SMG III + S85 = no 65 ms downshift.