CLK-Class (C209) CLK63 AMG Black Series!

[Imhotep Evil]

Re: CLK-DTM Part II!

Is this one test or a series of test? What were the actual numbers? I really don't see why this is a big deal. The new 335i bascially matches the performance of the outgoing M3 a car that would no doubt beat the old CLK55 around a track too.

Does this same disappointment apply to the BMW M6 because a SL55 got around a track faster?

M

So what, it shouldn't happen at all, its a Mercedes-Benz.

M

It's (CLK63) a disapointment because:

- its price
- its massive power advantage, and also has torque advantage.
- its tyres are way better; (come on man P Zeros vs. Runflats ?!)

The M6 won on several ocasions too vs. the SL55.

Even when the SL won, it didn't have 181 extra horses, nor did the M had runflats.

And we're talking here about the 335i beating the new CLK63 not old CLK55.
Even MB fans were disapointed.

So now we have the 335i beating the CLK350, CLK63 (so that means 500 too)
and maybe with some proper tyres it could equall or best the 63 B.S. (who knows ?!).

 

[Merc1]

Re: CLK-DTM Part II!

It's (CLK63) a disapointment because:

- its price
- its massive power advantage, and also has torque advantage.
- its tyres are way better; (come on man P Zeros vs. Runflats ?!)

The M6 won on several ocasions too vs. the SL55.

Even when the SL won, it didn't have 181 extra horses, nor did the M had runflats.

And we're talking here about the 335i beating the new CLK63 not old CLK55.
Even MB fans were disapointed.

So now we have the 335i beating the CLK350, CLK63 (so that means 500 too)
and maybe with some proper tyres it could equall or best the 63 B.S. (who knows ?!).

It is time to turn the record over. I asked for some numbers, not your rhetoric.

You missed the point about the M3 and the CLK55. My point was that if the new 335i bascially duplicates the peformance of the outgoing M3 and it could outdo the CLK55 on a track, then it doesn't come to much of a shock to me that the 335i would outdo a CLK63 on a track. Again, what are the numbers?

M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Sport Auto Hockenheim:

BMW 335i - 1.17,8 min
Mercedes CLK 63 - 1.18,4 min


Auto Express:

335i - 1:42.9 secs
Mercedes CLK63 - AMG 1:45.3 secs
Mazda 6 MPS - 1:44.85 secs

 

[Merc1]

Sport Auto Hockenheim:

BMW 335i - 1.17,8 min
Mercedes CLK 63 - 1.18,4 min


Auto Express:

335i - 1:42.9 secs
Mercedes CLK63 - AMG 1:45.3 secs
Mazda 6 MPS - 1:44.85 secs

The Sport Auto times are not a slaughter as you make it out to seem. The Auto Express times are pretty bad though. Same day, same track or different times on the same track? I wouldn't care what a Mazda could do on a track, it isn't half the car a Benz is elsewhere.

M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

The Sport Auto times are not a slaughter as you make it out to seem. The Auto Express times are pretty bad though. Same day, same track or different times on the same track? I wouldn't care what a Mazda could do on a track, it isn't half the car a Benz is elsewhere.

M

17" runflats, 181 HP less, no LSD, only 6 speed gearbox, for the name of God what else do need.

 

[bum-man]

You forgot to indicate the Benz carries 400lbs of extra weight. It weighs nearly 4000lbs of course it wont handle as good a lighter cars including the Mazda.

 

[Zafiro]

You forgot to indicate the Benz carries 400lbs of extra weight. It weighs nearly 4000lbs of course it wont handle as good a lighter cars including the Mazda.

big fat pig , buuuu Perhaps AMG should work on weight as well and not just power.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

You forgot to indicate the Benz carries 400lbs of extra weight. It weighs nearly 4000lbs of course it wont handle as good a lighter cars including the Mazda.

Still, tyres + extra power/torque + LSD + 7 GTronic.
So for this lightness is such a price really necesary ?!

 

[PC Valkyrie]

I guess this thread has really gone off topic and we're not talking about the CLK63 black series anymore.

Rather, we're talking about the "inferiority" of the standard CLK63 coupe compared to cars like the new 335i and maybe a Mazda?

You can't argue about the laptimes performed by Sport Auto and Auto Express, except to say MAYBE different conditions on different days may have an effect. (That's why I made the thread about what a "significant difference" may be for laptimes). Regardless, though, I believe the data and I think the new 335i IS the faster machine on a short track.

I'm the first one to acknowledge that the 335i is an AWESOME performance machine for the money. We all know the E90/E92 chassis is very good, and BMW has really raised the bar with regards to performance with the new 335i, with numbers almost equaling the E46 M3. The W209 CLK63 is based on the old W203 C-class (which is due to be replaced next year). We'll see how the next W204 C-class and next CLK-class performs. But right now, BMW rules on the performance front (like it always has).

Having said all that, the CLK63 will almost certainly blow away the 335i on everday roads, (if anyone wanted to race these cars in a straight line or on twisty everday roads). The is almost no opportunity to take these cars to the limits to extract that handling advantage the 335i has over the CLK63 on everyday twist roads. There is however plenty of opportunity to flex that HP muscle, if one wanted to (in a straight line AND on twisty roads). Looking at it this way, it's not really a fair comparison. One is an expensive top-of the line AMG machine, and the other is "just" a standard 3 series coupe. The new V8 M3 will certainly counter this. But the CLK63 AMG owner will get what he paid for.....he will blow away cars like the 335i and he will get a smile.

On a track, a SKILLED 335i owner (not your everyday driver) will get his satisfaction over the much more expensive CLK63 AMG car......despite all the HP advantage, the 335i owner can still reel the other guy in.

 

[Merc1]

17" runflats, 181 HP less, no LSD, only 6 speed gearbox, for the name of God what else do need.

Only a 6 speed gearbox, but a manual no less compared to an automatic. I'm at who cares stage with this pointless discussion. The 335i is faster around a track than a larger, heavier car that has more power, wowee.

M

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Only a 6 speed gearbox, but a manual no less compared to an automatic. I'm at who cares stage with this pointless discussion. The 335i is faster around a track than a larger, heavier car that has more power, wowee.

M

And the point being, why ask such ridiculous prices for B.S./light-weight editions and don't give the people this with the standard AMG cars for a more resonable price. (Oh, M5 , M6 are also big and heavy)

 

[Imhotep Evil]

But the CLK63 AMG owner will get what he paid for.....he will blow away cars like the 335i and he will get a smile.

But for that price tag the AMG owner will face a M6 owner, with his state of the
art V10 and ruthlessly eficient SMG III gearbox.

 

[NarutoRamen]

Still, tyres + extra power/torque + LSD + 7 GTronic.
So for this lightness is such a price really necesary ?!

For the exclusivity, the design, the superb luxury and ride, more than adequate handling and power....yes the price of the CLK63 is justified to me. Because, any JoeSchmo and go out and buy a 335 with a decent job...but that same joe schmoe can't go and buy a CLK63..no way.

To get back on topic, don't underestimate AMG. They have showed more than enough with the CLK DTM, and we all know it was detuned so it doesn't shine above the big brome SLR. If AMG use the same philosophy for this CLK Black series...then believe me, some big time cars in for a shock...but that is a big IF. We'll see if the CLK black is more closer to DTM or normal CLKs

 

[GTA45E]

Ok, Ill admit it. I havn`t been keeping up with the Black Series AMG cars.
Are we going to see this Black Series with the E63 and CLS63 as well? is this MBs answer to BMWs` CSL series?? hmmm, if so this is going to get really interesting.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

For the exclusivity, the design, the superb luxury and ride, more than adequate handling and power....yes the price of the CLK63 is justified to me. Because, any JoeSchmo and go out and buy a 335 with a decent job...but that same joe schmoe can't go and buy a CLK63..no way.

To get back on topic, don't underestimate AMG. They have showed more than enough with the CLK DTM, and we all know it was detuned so it doesn't shine above the big brome SLR. If AMG use the same philosophy for this CLK Black series...then believe me, some big time cars in for a shock...but that is a big IF. We'll see if the CLK black is more closer to DTM or normal CLKs

Should have done a proper job for a car that has these specs. Period.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Ok, Ill admit it. I havn`t been keeping up with the Black Series AMG cars.
Are we going to see this Black Series with the E63 and CLS63 as well? is this MBs answer to BMWs` CSL series?? hmmm, if so this is going to get really interesting.

Could be.
Who knows ?!

 

[NarutoRamen]

Should have done a proper job for a car that has these specs. Period.

Oh yeah, i'm not saying that they did a terrific job. All i'm saying is that it's not as dissapointing to me as it might be to you and many others. To me, I'm still going to get tons of hp/torque, mercedes styling and of course a Mercedes ride. So to me, it's not that big of a dissapointment simply because, yes I would have liked it to be a bit better on track but at the same time. If I had that car, it would never see the track anyways. Not to mention, not everyone who is going to buy a 335 is Horst Van Surma or something...and my driving skills are more than enough to beat most people. Never lost a race...yet.

 

[Imhotep Evil]

Oh yeah, i'm not saying that they did a terrific job. All i'm saying is that it's not as dissapointing to me as it might be to you and many others. To me, I'm still going to get tons of hp/torque, mercedes styling and of course a Mercedes ride. So to me, it's not that big of a dissapointment simply because, yes I would have liked it to be a bit better on track but at the same time. If I had that car, it would never see the track anyways. Not to mention, not everyone who is going to buy a 335 is Horst Van Surma or something...and my driving skills are more than enough to beat most people. Never lost a race...yet.

The AMG wasn't a disapointment for me either in the begining. But than some MB fan, I belive Kleeman_SL, or someone, said said he was disapointed by the CLK63. Well I didn't knew why exactly, and then I found out, this had 481 HP (I belived it had 381 HP).

Back to the B.S., well the SLK55 BS, track time on the Hockenheim wasn't really impressive considering it had P Zero Corsa tyres, and it costed a lot.

 

[LaArtist]

all in all i say this..the Ordinary CLK63 is a darn good car..cause it will smoke most cars in everyday life.. including the 335.. and plus its more exclusive and so on..

The black series on the other hand cant be commented on..cause its not ready for the streets yet..
and dont forget that the B.S costs alot cause its 1 out of only 100 made..thats exclusive..

 

[NarutoRamen]

Back to the B.S., well the CLK BS, track time on the Hockenheim wasn't really impressive considering it had P Zero Corsa tyres, and it costed a lot.

the CLK Black Series isnt' even out yet...when was it tested on Hockenheim?