Hey I'm not trolling here, just saying it is wayy underpowered, it has the C300 for the 328i, G25, and A4 2.0T... The least powerful compeitor it has is the 335i now(A4 V6 is dead), which simply blows away the C in nearly all terms of performance and driver involvement/enjoyment. When will they come out with a real compeitive C350 ?? A car with less power than a Honda Accord that is in a class with 350 horsepower(new 2011 G37), 306 horsepower Lexuses, 330 horsepower supercharged Audis, 305 horsepower Acuras, and 300 horsepower twin turbocharged BMWs is simply unacceptable.
C350 Speed
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Wunderkind
Chicane Challenger
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I know exactly what you mean. The C350 does indeed have the least powerful engine in its class (BMW 335i and the Audi A5 or A6 3.0L TFSI). I never quite understood what Mercedes was doing. But they didn't have a turbocharged six cylinder engine so there's not a lot Mercedes could have done (the Direct Injection version of the 3.5L V6 did make up some of the deficit).
On a positive note, Mercedes-AMG does have a twin turbo 3.5L V6 engine ready to go. It produces over 400hp. But I can see it being detuned and installed into all the 350 (E, S, SL, CLS, etc) models.
I have always advocated Mercedes to at least match what their competitors are offering in the same class. I think Mercedes was caught asleep somewhat. The C350 being a relatively low volume seller is no excuse as other 350 models combine to make up a large number.
I hope we will not be disappointed.
Wunderkind
Chicane Challenger
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I think Mercedes should keep themselves at least at parity with its competitors. Don't forget Mercedes is still charging a premium over comparable BMW or Audi in all segments.
Okay how about this, it is not a standout in any way in it's class in terms of performance and driver involvement/enjoyment, although it does have a firm vault-like chassis and relaible performance(if you could say), it falls short on raw unadulterated performance which includes only mediocre steering feel, comparably flaccid handling, uninspired braking, and it understeers a lot for it's class(which includes the tight and sporty 335i, sportyish IS350, sport sedan G37, the road gripping Super Handling All Wheel Drive Acura TL, and the Audi S4 with it's torque vectoring rear diff). I can't think of a car it outperforms in it's class in any terms of performance.
Maybe the two-ton Cadillac CTS ??? Even though it has 304 horsepower from Direct Injection I think the C350 is still a bit faster since it weighs 500 ought lbs less....Because I asked real questions that need to be answered by Mercedes about the C-class. I was inquiring on what future drivetrain acquisitions the C-class(particularly the C350) will gain down the road as well(what will M-B do ? Will they blow away the class with some twin-turbo 350 horsepower 3.5 V6 like the Ecoboost but better ?). It is getting behind it's competition in several regards, granted is without a doubt a great engineering marvel on wheels(as is just about every Merc) but it needs more spice to it's ingredients. It's like a great tasting reliable old fashioned vanilla ice cream, it's good, but it could also be better. Mercedes needs to start think more outside of the box as they do with their AMG and higher end products, they need to think more Banana split than plain old vanilla... C350 is a damned good car, but with just a little more zest and panache in regards to performance, it could be a real winner and standout in its' class.
@Merc1
Quit just trying to shut people up that don't agree with you and try to bring in a different point of view. Please ? Thank you. I like the C-class and would be interested in buying one if they just fixed the issues that I mentioned, that's why I commented.
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I've spent a lot of money on M-B products in the last 3 years. None of which had HP or handling even NEAR the top of the list, as to why I spent said money on the products.
I'm under 30, have had my racing days, etc. but Mercedes isn't about that for me.
Needless to say, it isn't to most M-B buyers either.
The C still slaughters the Infinite G in sales, even with a lot less HP. The E-Class slaughters the XF in sales, even though for the price of a 268 HP E350, you can get a 385 HP XF, which also out handles it easily.
For a Luxury car, I want Luxury, and indeed, that does include a smooth enough, large enough motor, to propel the car without strain. I find a car under 4,000 lbs, with over 250 HP, and with a motor larger than a 4 cyl, larger than 3.0L's, is fine for me. Of course, I do have a slight performance itch sometimes, but I plan to scratch it with a different type of car, if need be.
That said, this doesn't mean M-B should be fine building motors that have less HP than comparable makes, however, it provides insight as to why discussing HP wars with C-Classes, or buying a C-Class simply because of HP, is missing the whole point.
M-B has been at the low end of the relatively-speaking V6 HP spectrum right now, but next year, with the new "350" motors, they'll be right up there in comparability, with 300-310 HP V6's.
I'm under 30, have had my racing days, etc. but Mercedes isn't about that for me.
Needless to say, it isn't to most M-B buyers either.
The C still slaughters the Infinite G in sales, even with a lot less HP. The E-Class slaughters the XF in sales, even though for the price of a 268 HP E350, you can get a 385 HP XF, which also out handles it easily.
For a Luxury car, I want Luxury, and indeed, that does include a smooth enough, large enough motor, to propel the car without strain. I find a car under 4,000 lbs, with over 250 HP, and with a motor larger than a 4 cyl, larger than 3.0L's, is fine for me. Of course, I do have a slight performance itch sometimes, but I plan to scratch it with a different type of car, if need be.
That said, this doesn't mean M-B should be fine building motors that have less HP than comparable makes, however, it provides insight as to why discussing HP wars with C-Classes, or buying a C-Class simply because of HP, is missing the whole point.
M-B has been at the low end of the relatively-speaking V6 HP spectrum right now, but next year, with the new "350" motors, they'll be right up there in comparability, with 300-310 HP V6's.
I do see what you are saying, though power can be important and even save your life(tight passing situations on two lane roads where you can't see around cars), helps on highway on-ramps, and it's just plain good ol' fun ! My VQ in particular may not sound "refined" to some but it just sounds like a roaring jaguar or lion when revved out to near 8,000 rpm and is a joy, and it sounds so sweet if you roll the windows down that even if you weren't moving fast it wouldn't matter.
2010 Infiniti G37:
November 2010 Sales: 2,856
Change vs. November 2009: +35.9%
2010 Mercedes C-Class
November 2010 Sales: 3,930
Change vs. November 2009: -2.3%
Keep in mind the G37 is only available with ONE engine at the moment, which is a turnoff to alot of buyers because of the 3.7 having too much power or using too much gas. The sales have only been skyrocketing since the 2nd gen G was introduced for the 2007 model year, with the G25 sales are expected to improve even more dramatically, as it will be a direct compeitor to the Audi A4/BMW 328i/M-B C350. The G convertible JUST came out as well. Meanwhile sales have stagnated for the C-class in the past year. The G is on the rise though. I'm sure C-class sales will recoup when the new one comes out, but it may not be one of the sales top dogs for long(1- BMW 3 series, 2- Lexus ES350
, 3- M-B C class)....Sidenote: The Jaguar XF has been PLAGUED with problems(electronically in particular) which makes sense, it wasn't intended to be a high volume car to the degree of E-class sales either though...
Anyways, are there any known plans for the C-class drivetrain changes in the forseeable future ?
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I do see what you are saying, though power can be important and even save your life(tight passing situations on two lane roads where you can't see around cars), helps on highway on-ramps, and it's just plain good ol' fun ! My VQ in particular may not sound "refined" to some but it just sounds like a roaring jaguar or lion when revved out to near 8,000 rpm and is a joy, and it sounds so sweet if you roll the windows down that even if you weren't moving fast it wouldn't matter.
2010 Infiniti G37:
November 2010 Sales: 2,856
Change vs. November 2009: +35.9%
2010 Mercedes C-Class
November 2010 Sales: 3,930
Change vs. November 2009: -2.3%
Keep in mind the G37 is only available with ONE engine at the moment, which is a turnoff to alot of buyers because of the 3.7 having too much power or using too much gas. The sales have only been skyrocketing since the 2nd gen G was introduced for the 2007 model year, with the G25 sales are expected to improve even more dramatically, as it will be a direct compeitor to the Audi A4/BMW 328i/M-B C350. The G convertible JUST came out as well. Meanwhile sales have stagnated for the C-class in the past year. The G is on the rise though. I'm sure C-class sales will recoup when the new one comes out, but it may not be one of the sales top dogs for long(1- BMW 3 series, 2- Lexus ES350
Sidenote: The Jaguar XF has been PLAGUED with problems(electronically in particular) which makes sense, it wasn't intended to be a high volume car to the degree of E-class sales either though...
My point is, HP is one of the lowest selling points to these cars. Most buyers don't know, or care about how much HP an E-Class, or C-Class has. As long as it doesn't feel like it's wheezing, and straining to get up to speed. And I get your point about the "safety" of having enough power to get out of tight spots, but if you were talking about a 150 HP 3500 lb car, I might understand, while a 270 HP under 4,000 lb car is plenty "safe" in that regard, lol. Back just under a decade ago, a BMW V8 came with 282 HP, and that was considered fast.
The C-Class would do fine if it continued with the same motors, and of course, extra HP is always a good thing, so the new engines will only further help it.
C Sales have stagnated a bit, however, it's nothing shocking. Also, the W212 hit as a huge Sales success, and actually took over volume leader from the C, which I'm sure helped that.
The XF does have its own problems, but the fact that the 268 HP E-Class can cost the same as a 385 HP Jag, and slaughter it in Sales, speaks volumes about this demographic, and what people want in general.
In fact, the 300 HP of next years E will probably go unnoticed by the masses, however, it'll be the 30+ MPG which will get the tangible attention.
Again, I agree that M-B needs to stay competitive in the numbers game, and I sure would love more HP. But I don't need it, and with my style of driving, and the traffic I deal with, the E350 feel plenty fast to me, even after I drove it back to back with CLS550's, CLS55 AMG's, S550's, 535i's, etc. It's all about your driving style, location, and cravings.
Edit: For the record, I'd rather buy a G37 over a C-Class, personally, as C's aren't my thing (great cars, but also, not what I crave out of a Mercedes). The only thing a C really wins over the G37 in with me, is the trusted Benz safety (which is my #1 care when buying a car), and styling by a bit, although the G37 is a great looking car, and the Coupe is even nicer IMO.
About sound, I agree, sound is even MORE important to me than HP. However, if it ain't a V8, it doesn't sound that great to me. Although, Nissan's V6's always sound outstanding, but so does M-B's 3.5L, it's been even dubbed to have a "baby Ferrari howl" by Mag Tests. Being a V8 guy, I think it sounds nice, growly, and throaty enough for me at WOT.
My point is, HP is one of the lowest selling points to these cars. Most buyers don't know, or care about how much HP an E-Class, or C-Class has. As long as it doesn't feel like it's wheezing, and straining to get up to speed. And I get your point about the "safety" of having enough power to get out of tight spots, but if you were talking about a 150 HP 3500 car, I might understand, a 270 HP under 4,000 HP car is plenty "safe" in that regard, lol. Back just under a decade ago, a BMW V8 came with 282 HP, and that was considered fast.
The C-Class would do fine if it continued with the same motors, and of course, extra HP is always a good thing, so the new engines will only further help it.
C Sales have stagnated a bit, however, it's nothing shocking. Also, the W212 hit as a huge Sales success, and actually took over volume leader from the C, which I'm sure helped that.
The XF does have its own problems, but the fact that the 268 HP E-Class can cost the same as a 385 HP Jag, and slaughter it in Sales, speaks about this demographic, and what people want in general.
In fact, the 300 HP of next years E will probably go unnoticed by the masses, however, it'll be the 30+ MPG which will get the tangible attention.
Again, I agree that M-B needs to stay competitive in the numbers game, and I sure would love more HP. But I don't need it, and with my style of driving, and the traffic I deal with, the E350 feel plenty fast to me, even after I drove it back to back with CLS550's, CLS55 AMG's, S550's, 535i's, etc. It's all about your driving style, location, and cravings.
Agreed, but one exception, the first generation of G35's primary selling point was power for the money, as well as features, but power was still it's main tangible selling point because the interior was, well you know the story.... Also it would not be unheard of for a $40k+ 268 horsepower car with an engine displacing 3.5 liters to get 30 mpg+, I can name a certain 305 horsepower car that displaces 3.5 liters yet still manages 31 mpg and costs just $22k...
When I am older I wont want an overly powerful car, a 268 hp one would suffice, which is the E-class' major buying base, older people that care less about speed and more about luxury.
My point is, HP is one of the lowest selling points to these cars. Most buyers don't know, or care about how much HP an E-Class, or C-Class has. As long as it doesn't feel like it's wheezing, and straining to get up to speed. And I get your point about the "safety" of having enough power to get out of tight spots, but if you were talking about a 150 HP 3500 lb car, I might understand, while a 270 HP under 4,000 lb car is plenty "safe" in that regard, lol. Back just under a decade ago, a BMW V8 came with 282 HP, and that was considered fast.
The C-Class would do fine if it continued with the same motors, and of course, extra HP is always a good thing, so the new engines will only further help it.
C Sales have stagnated a bit, however, it's nothing shocking. Also, the W212 hit as a huge Sales success, and actually took over volume leader from the C, which I'm sure helped that.
The XF does have its own problems, but the fact that the 268 HP E-Class can cost the same as a 385 HP Jag, and slaughter it in Sales, speaks volumes about this demographic, and what people want in general.
In fact, the 300 HP of next years E will probably go unnoticed by the masses, however, it'll be the 30+ MPG which will get the tangible attention.
Again, I agree that M-B needs to stay competitive in the numbers game, and I sure would love more HP. But I don't need it, and with my style of driving, and the traffic I deal with, the E350 feel plenty fast to me, even after I drove it back to back with CLS550's, CLS55 AMG's, S550's, 535i's, etc. It's all about your driving style, location, and cravings.
Edit: For the record, I'd rather buy a G37 over a C-Class, personally, as C's aren't my thing (great cars, but also, not what I crave out of a Mercedes). The only thing a C really wins over the G37 in with me, is the trusted Benz safety (which is my #1 care when buying a car), and styling by a bit, although the G37 is a great looking car, and the Coupe is even nicer IMO.
About sound, I agree, sound is even MORE important to me than HP. However, if it ain't a V8, it doesn't sound that great to me. Although, Nissan's V6's always sound outstanding, but so does M-B's 3.5L, it's been even dubbed to have a "baby Ferrari howl" by Mag Tests. Being a V8 guy, I think it sounds nice, growly, and throaty enough for me at WOT.
In response to your edit: I have had people that look at me in a weird way when I say it's a V6, they're response is typically a confused look... I agree on the safety part, the C does perform better in rollover I believe and I will look more in depth to that.... The G does have some high HIC(Head Injury Criterion) readings in the NHTSA full frontal, but does very well in their side impact crash test.
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Agreed, but one exception, the first generation of G35's primary selling point was power for the money, as well as features, but power was still it's main tangible selling point because the interior was, well you know the story.... Also it would not be unheard of for a $40k+ 268 horsepower car with an engine displacing 3.5 liters to get 30 mpg+, I can name a certain 305 horsepower car that displaces 3.5 liters yet still manages 31 mpg and costs just $22k...
When I am older I wont want an overly powerful car, a 268 hp one would suffice, which is the E-class' major buying base, older people that care less about speed and more about luxury.
You're talking about the Mustang?
I don't think it's all age specific. It's more driving-personality based, to think otherwise is simply using a juvenile type of logic, while, yes, age obviously plays somewhat of a role. I'm in my 20's, and power isn't high on my list, and just about 5+ years ago, I used to street race (like an idiot) constantly, in my lowered, fully modded, muffler-less, Mustang GT.
I find there's no need for major HP for me, as my location would never allow for its use, it can only get me into trouble, and my 270 HP Sedan is quick enough to impress me. More HP at this point would only feed a lame braggart "ego" that thankfully doesn't exist for me, or just get me into some trouble.
Again, this isn't to say I'd love some more, but obviously, I spent my money on something that comparatively lacked VS competition when it comes to HP. And I'm not even talking about New VS New competition, I'm talking about other Used cars that I was looking at as well, at an even less price point, being cars with well over 400+ HP in some cases.
If I keep my E for a long time (which I hope that I will, 'cause I love it), I would like to get a beastly V8, or performance car for fun, as my next second car. I'm a muscle-car nut, so I'd love to pick up something like that. Obviously, the rush of acceleration is a natural high for us, and I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing whether it's a necessity for certain types of cars, and whether some of us find 270 HP to provide enough of it, in the real-world.
I agree on part of your point, I don't need as much power as I do have, it has all the power I would ever want(309 horsepower), though I could use some more torque(268 lb-ft.)....
I used to own a 2006 Acura RL, that was advertised at 300 horsepower new but somehow took 6.5-7 seconds to hit 60 mph, but it was still plenty fast for me. I loved that car, I went thru white out blizzards in it and didn't have any trouble. Heck, I picked up some family members on a Christmas Eve blizzard and because of the car we were all able to celebrate christmas at my grandparents house like we have done every year. About two years ago I was rear ended by a meat truck going 45 mph, crumpled rear in to the point that the rear window broke, though I had no injuries besides some minor whiplash, he forced me into the police car in front of me too.... which totaled the car...
Power is a good asset to have when you need it, but reliability and safety were/are high on my list too, the G was an IIHS best pick when it came out and talked my local professional mechanic and he said the G was an outstanding car for long term reliablilty, besides it being susceptible to high water because the engine air filter is mounted on the bottom of the car. The G I was looking at was a year old and was a great price and fully loaded, so I sprung on the deal, and here I am.
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- Name
- Marcus
Because I asked real questions that need to be answered by Mercedes about the C-class. I was inquiring on what future drivetrain acquisitions the C-class(particularly the C350) will gain down the road as well(what will M-B do ? Will they blow away the class with some twin-turbo 350 horsepower 3.5 V6 like the Ecoboost but better ?). It is getting behind it's competition in several regards, granted is without a doubt a great engineering marvel on wheels(as is just about every Merc) but it needs more spice to it's ingredients. It's like a great tasting reliable old fashioned vanilla ice cream, it's good, but it could also be better. Mercedes needs to start think more outside of the box as they do with their AMG and higher end products, they need to think more Banana split than plain old vanilla... C350 is a damned good car, but with just a little more zest and panache in regards to performance, it could be a real winner and standout in its' class.
@Merc1
Quit just trying to shut people up that don't agree with you and try to bring in a different point of view. Please ? Thank you. I like the C-class and would be interested in buying one if they just fixed the issues that I mentioned, that's why I commented.
Actually what you should have done was reasearch the forums and particulary the threads about Mercedes engine plans and particulary the C-Class facelift thread before coming here and making yourself look like a fool and a 1/2.
There are reams of information on the C-Class here and what is going to happen with it. Your thread was posted as bash thread plain and simple, but you or the mods have changed it since.
If you had done your homework here FIRST before starting this stupid thread you would have known what my view is and what most MB fans here think of the C-Class.
M
What I said was not "bashing", it's this funny little thing called "constructive criticism". The C-class is a fine and exemplary car, it's only characterstic for which it could substantially improve on is it's performance. Plain and simple.
BMW is falling behind on driver involvement/enjoyment with some of its' new cars, and who's to say the new 3 series will go that way(the 5 series has) ??? It's an opportunity for M-B to snatch up some more buyers into it's market, Volvo did this with their new S60 and it's basically Volvo's first universally commendable car, it's a formula for success that is proven to work and M-B could use it in combination with it's current formula in the C-class.
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- Marcus
What I said was not "bashing", it's this funny little thing called "constructive criticism". The C-class is a fine and exemplary car, it's only characterstic for which it could substantially improve on is it's performance. Plain and simple.
Calling a car a dog is not "constructive criticism".
M
You act like I just insulted someone and called them a dog for how mad you are, the car is not a person. Chill.
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