Politics Brexit Politics

[klier]

Hmm, I'm coming round to the way of thinking that our leadership here in the UK is about as bad.

Oh absolutely. England can go F*&% off with their Brexit. Bye bye.
Sorry for the people who voted against Brexit, but it's a shame the country is filled with brainless idiots.

Now this morning I read that the Holland, Belgium, France, Denmark and some more are not allowed to catch fish in British territorial waters anymore..... Well, well, well...I'd say it's time for the EU to make British products too expensive to sell. Maybe China wants their fishsticks.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Oh absolutely. England can go F*&% off with their Brexit. Bye bye.

I take exception to this. It's the United Kingdom, not just England.

 

[Matski]

Oh absolutely. England can go F*&% off with their Brexit. Bye bye.
Sorry for the people who voted against Brexit, but it's a shame the country is filled with brainless idiots.

Probably best left for another topic, but I personally voted to stay in the EU. In our defence though, it was only about 25% of the country who were hood-winked into voting to leave by xenophobes and shysters. The largest group just didn't bother to register to vote --- so we're not all brainless idiots... but most of us are lazy ones!

Now this morning I read that the Holland, Belgium, France, Denmark and some more are not allowed to catch fish in British territorial waters anymore..... Well, well, well...I'd say it's time for the EU to make British products too expensive to sell. Maybe China wants their fishsticks.

It's not quite as simple as that, the UK wants to pull out of a mutual agreement that lets each other fish within 12 miles of our respective coast lines. So essentially we'll be loosing out on fishing in their territorial waters also, but this agreement was in place long before the UK joined the EU so it's a separate issue. Since we don't yet know where we'll be allowed to fish, or how much we'll be allowed to fish after we leave the EU we've probably done this to try and safeguard our own fishing industry. Which I don't think is wrong, it's just another result of the uncertainty we face as a nation in 633 days, 10 hours and 4 minutes time.

 

[klier]

Probably best left for another topic, but I personally voted to stay in the EU. In our defence though, it was only about 25% of the country who were hood-winked into voting to leave by xenophobes and shysters. The largest group just didn't bother to register to vote --- so we're not all brainless idiots... but most of us are lazy ones!

I know, I know. I am being harsh because I think it really sucks the UK is leaving. And you don't have to tell me what you voted for, I was 100% sure you voted stay anyways.

Since we don't yet know where we'll be allowed to fish, or how much we'll be allowed to fish after we leave the EU we've probably done this to try and safeguard our own fishing industry.

The EU is going to safeguard it's fishing industry too. It's a race to the bottom. Insane stuff.

 

[chonkoa]

Oh absolutely. England can go F*&% off with their Brexit. Bye bye.
Sorry for the people who voted against Brexit, but it's a shame the country is filled with brainless idiots.

Now this morning I read that the Holland, Belgium, France, Denmark and some more are not allowed to catch fish in British territorial waters anymore..... Well, well, well...I'd say it's time for the EU to make British products too expensive to sell. Maybe China wants their fishsticks.

I am hoping calmer heads will prevail.
I am hoping after when all the dust have settled, this will just be considered a posturing.

 

[Deleted member 25]

But I don't care about the U.S. I care about the EU.

You should always care about the Kommandantur man.

 

[Kowalski]

Europe is f#cked. The USA isn't. Plain and simple.

 

[SDNR]

I hate to break it to you Klier, but our destinies are intertwined.
Our security is EU's security and EU security is our security. Now is when we need the EU and other members of this alliance to protect us from the biggest threat we have faced- a threat from within, from our self destruction.
I am right of the political divide but I am patriot first and foremost.

I think this was a major issue for the Brexit "Leavers". The huge numbers of refugees flooding into Europe from the Med ....and the social problems we've seen in parts of the EU since was certainly concerning for many people.

As far as terrorism is concerned though, I am very cynical about the entire Isis situation - We know in Syria they were being backed by the US government to topple the Assad government. The Russians and Iranians back Assad because they've got plans to build a gas pipeline through Syria and into Europe. The (American-backed) Qataris, Saudis, and Turks, (with Westen oil companies) also have plans for a pipeline that runs through Syria but Assad is blocking them. This is the reason why the West has done everything to destroy the Assad regime - it has nothing to do with crimes against humanity - IT'S ALL ABOUT THE TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BE MADE FROM OIL AND GAS PIPLINES INTO EUROPE.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I think this was a major issue for the Brexit "Leavers". The huge numbers of refugees flooding into Europe from the Med ....and the social problems we've seen in parts of the EU since was certainly concerning for many people.

I think you're right, but these people were hugely mistaken, and quite frankly, complete idiots for thinking the refugee crisis had anything to do with Brexit. The UK still has control of its borders for people without EU passports. The refugees will still be trying to get to the UK whether it's in the EU or not.

 

[SDNR]

I think you're right, but these people were hugely mistaken, and quite frankly, complete idiots for thinking the refugee crisis had anything to do with Brexit. The UK still has control of its borders for people without EU passports. The refugees will still be trying to get to the UK whether it's in the EU or not.

Yes, that is true. The solution is obviously for the US and the EU to get the hell out of the Middle-East. Nobody is winning this crazy ongoing mess that started with G.W. Bush and Tony Blair .....and has just got worse and worse since.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Yes, that is true. The solution is obviously for the US and the EU to get the hell out of the Middle-East. Nobody is winning this crazy ongoing mess that started with G.W. Bush and Tony Blair .....and has just got worse and worse since.

The Syrian civil war may have happened anyway, irrespective of whether the UK and U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003.

 

[chonkoa]

I think you're right, but these people were hugely mistaken, and quite frankly, complete idiots for thinking the refugee crisis had anything to do with Brexit. The UK still has control of its borders for people without EU passports. The refugees will still be trying to get to the UK whether it's in the EU or not.

My take is that BREXIT and Donald Trump are fallout of globalisation. People felt their concerns(whatever they may be) were not being addressed. I also reckon with respect to Donald Trump, some people have had it with political correctness.
So fear of the unknown and the feeling of being irrelevant IMHO partly contributed the mess we have with DJ Trump and BREXIT.

 

[SDNR]

The Syrian civil war may have happened anyway, irrespective of whether the UK and U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003.

Yes, possibly. I'm certainly no expert on Syria ...and I don't doubt Assad is not a good guy ...but the (Western-backed) Syrian rebels fighting Assad (many of them Isis soldiers) are being used to topple Assad because he is 'problematic' for a few people hoping to build an extremely lucrative oil pipeline through Syria. We saw what happened when the Russians got involved - it became increasingly clear the Obama adminstration was not 100% committed to destroying Isis because they were using them. The whole scenario with Assad supposedly gassing his own people is incredibly suspicious also. Trump has continued this outrage.

 

[chonkoa]

The Syrian civil war may have happened anyway, irrespective of whether the UK and U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003.

I agree.
I am often conflicted with the Syrian mess. Some Syrian people like the rest of the Arab spring wanted to be free(from whatever their reasons)led to this chaos. It has absolutely nothing to do with US and UK invasion of Iraq(which I think was wrong)
The world order is a mess, it reminds of Yugoslavia after the death of Josip Tito. That was a messy breakup. Actually some of the nations we have today are sitting powder kegs.
One can also remember the mess in Ukraine and how is closely tied to the old USSR.

 

[EnI]

Europe is f$%ked. The USA isn't. Plain and simple.

ROFL!

How many millions CITIZENS homeless & without basic health care coverage? How many more in the future? Sure, best country to live there. If you are wealthy.

Sure Europe is divided (nationally, politically, culturally, religiously, on values, lifestyle etc) since it's not a homogeneous place and a federation, like US is. But socially most EU countries (incl. some poorer ones) are much more including, with better social equality rate, with better welfare eg than the US. But sure Europe can be eg. more xenophobic - although the Trump's US is catching up VERY QUICKLY.

For the masses Europe is much better place to live. Not so for the wealthiest few percent (eg due to high property & income taxes etc).



Regarding refugees in Europe ... how come UK, Germany, France, Italy etc prefer immigrants from non-EU countries (eg. from Middle East, Central Asia, Far East, North Africa, Central Africa etc) than from Eastern & Central European ex-communist Countries.

I have a feeling that eg. Poles in UK are much more hated than eg. Pakistanis or Arabs. Or that Serbs in Germany are less welcome than eg. Turks.



Regarding Middle East ... it's a f...ed up place just like eg. the Balkans is. Constant inter-ethnic & inter-religion tensions & violence. There's no quick & simple solution there. Very delicate situation. All the West (and / or Russia & / or China) can do is to contain the place. Not trying to divide it based on their own interest. Or even engage in some proxy fights or even wars there.


So, to summarise: the whole world is a f...ed up place. It has ever been. And it will ever be even in the future. And due to aggressive globalization ANY conflict anywhere has & will have much bigger impact on the whole globe than ever before. Not to mention the climate is changing rapidly for the worse ... which will make some places unbearable to live there. So, there will be much more refugees in the future form those places. There will not only be wars for energy resources & valuable earths etc. but also for fertile land, for water resources, for liveable places in general. Thank good I'll be dead in a few decades, not being forced to witness & experience all that mayhem.

 

[Matski]

I have a feeling that eg. Poles in UK are much more hated than eg. Pakistanis or Arabs.

I'm not sure that's true. The Polish tend to get flack for "coming over here and taking our jobs" or, "coming over here and taking all our benefits", it's a bad feeling held against them for sure, but I don't think it tends to manifest itself that often.

Pakistanis and Arabs... or pretty much anyone that vaguely fits the black Asian ethnicity - tend get the full brunt of hate for terrorist acts. This is why we see big rises in the number of hate crimes committed in the wake of Islamic radical attacks. People cite the large closed Muslim communities as not wanting to integrate and they see Mosques as a symbol of this - this draws attention and focuses hate in a way I don't think the Polish population has to deal with.

I could of course be wrong, I'm fortunate enough not to deal with these things first hand.

What I find pretty awful was the huge jump in hate crimes committed shortly of the EU referendum vote... the vote to leave Europe clearly empowered our indigenous xenophobes and racists.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

I'm not sure that's true. The Polish tend to get flack for "coming over here and taking our jobs" or, "coming over here and taking all our benefits", it's a bad feeling held against them for sure, but I don't think it tends to manifest itself that often.

Pakistanis and Arabs... or pretty much anyone that vaguely fits the black Asian ethnicity - tend get the full brunt of hate for terrorist acts. This is why we see big rises in the number of hate crimes committed in the wake of Islamic radical attacks. People cite the large closed Muslim communities as not wanting to integrate and they see Mosques as a symbol of this - this draws attention and focuses hate in a way I don't think the Polish population has to deal with.

I could of course be wrong, I'm fortunate enough not to deal with these things first hand.

What I find pretty awful was the huge jump in hate crimes committed shortly of the EU referendum vote... the vote to leave Europe clearly empowered our indigenous xenophobes and racists.

Completely agree.

From my observations, the Poles are subject to less hate than people from the Indian sub-continent.

 

[SDNR]

Yes, let's talk about abortion instead of guns, nuclear missiles and bombastic presidents. Such fun!

Any LGBT people here? So we can "stone them to death" by the "kind words of sympathy".



Should we rather talk about SPAIN. They are on the brink of a civil war with Catalonia declaring its Independence next Monday but federal government will do *anything* to protect territorial integrity of Spain, incl. involving the armed forces.

Let's talk about Theresa May's disastrous speech yesterday.
She's in trouble. Will Boris take over?

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[Matski]

She's in trouble. Will Boris take over?

I don't think so, she survived the woeful effort that was her snap-general election, I think she can survive this. Also, pretty much whoever takes over now is going to be in the drivers seat for the car-crash that is Brexit.... and unless we get a new leader that decides to try and call the whole thing off, I can't really see anyone taking on that responsibility at this stage - may as well just let her take the fall and step in afterwards.

I'd be okay with BoJo though - we're pretty much f***ed whatever happens - might as well get some comedy value from it!

 

[SDNR]

I don't think so, she survived the woeful effort that was her snap-general election, I think she can survive this. Also, pretty much whoever takes over now is going to be in the drivers seat for the car-crash that is Brexit.... and unless we get a new leader that decides to try and call the whole thing off, I can't really see anyone taking on that responsibility at this stage - may as well just let her take the fall and step in afterwards.

I'd be okay with BoJo though - we're pretty much f***ed whatever happens - might as well get some comedy value from it!

Labour certainly are making noises about calling it off. However, what does this say about British Democracy?
Should there be a second referendum do you think?

And what's the strange cult forming around Jacob Rees-Mogg all about?.
He's an interesting guy: likeable, nerdy, eccentric, and very British.