3 Series BMW V3 - 3er Crossover (spy pics & info)
- Thread starter Bartek S.
- Start date
The BMW 3 series is a line of compact executive cars manufactured by the German automaker BMW since May 1975. BMW's best selling model, it is the successor to the 02 series. Since 2013, the coupé and convertible models have been marketed as the 4 Series. The M version of the 3 series, the M3, debuted with the E30 M3 in 1986.
bmer
Tire Trailblazer
D
Deleted member 25
You are one fire guys, at least we can still laugh 
warot
Track Technician
While you do that, I'll fall asleep smiling about this video:
While yes, BMW has grown tremendously in the past decade and offer many more choices in cars,
Apart from the CSL, there are more M cars now than ever (I'm thinking 90's) and are all great in their own ways. Yes, they have more "everyday" cars, but what car company nowadays don't... Really tell me one car company. Porsche has SUV's (and a diesel one at that) and Lamborghini is about to release a 4 door.
I understand that because I actually work for BMW, my arguments won't have any traction at all. But even if I wasn't, I wouldn't be so dissatisfied. This has been beaten to death lately, so I'll just leave it at that.
Merc1
Premium
This is like hearing dogs bark off in the distance.
Again, the same old excuses.
Why is it that Porsche, Aston-Martin, Mercedes, and others can make money from low-volume cars and BMW can't? Or so we're lead to believe.
This about the M3 CSL is BS. If you can spend the money and time to make a 5000lb SUV into an M vehicle then surely you can spend the time and money to turn an existing M product into something even hotter. This about money doesn't wash and it is nonsense.
Please tell me what the difference is between taking an X5 or X6 and turning it into an M vehicle and turning an existing M vehicle into an even hotter product. Hell with the M3 all of the basics are already there!!!!!!! All BMW would be doing it tweaking and adding, no total redesigning of many things or the amount of effort in getting a 5000lb 'truck' to dance like a proper M vehicle.
Again, isn't the CS based on the 7-Series? If so what is the problem? This about people won't buy it is nothing but cop-out plain and simple. If people won't buy a high-end BMW it is because of something BMW is doing wrong, not the market or economy. There is still a market for high-end cars. Everyone hasn't lost their shirt or gone broke yet.
If we're going to blame the market for the cancellation of the CS then why the hell is BMW taking the 7-Series chassis and turning it into a Rolls-Royce? Because the market still exists. BMW not wanting to design, build and sell/market a high-end car is their own problem, not the market or anything else. Others do it.
**** The Mercedes-Benz S-Class facelift was not delayed ******
It was not going to be shown this year anyway. The car is a 2010 model for the U.S. which means a spring/summer 2009 debut in Europe. Mercedes would have hardly shown the Concept Fascination and the facelifted S at the same show.
************ Incorrect Information about the S-Class Facelift ************
Making a high-end car isn't a money losing thing for Porsche, Mercedes and others so why is it a money losing thing at BMW? Even Lamborghini and Aston-Martin are (or were before the sales downturn) showing a profit.
Now you're telling me a company as smart and as financially savy as BMW can't turn a profit on 4-door coupe based on an already existing, pedestrian platform like the 7-Series? A very, extremely dubious arguement. If that is the case then the X6 should be a money loser too, but I bet it isn't.
Now there is a theme at BMW that crossovers are the salvation of the market. Well at what point do you cut the pie into too many slices? V3/PAC, PAS, X5, X6, X3, X1 not to mention their own touring models. How many is enough? When do you reach the point of diminishing returns?
I can understand not doing anything to the M6 (CSL) this late in its life. Kinda pointless since the car has been on the market for 5 years now.
Mercedes is going to cancel the SLC? NOT. The same thing that was said about the X5 and X6 M models apply to the SLC, development is too far along. We've already seen what appears to be an interior mock up.
We're really supposed to believe that taking the 7-Series platform and doing something different with it and charging more won't result in any profit for BMW? While their doing the same thing with the 3-Series platform for the PAC, ditto for the X5 to X6 and 7-Series to Rolls-Royce?
If there is no market for the CS, then there isn't going to be much of a market for a X6M or X5M either. I can see one or the other, but both an X5 and X6 M? Seems to me that only the X6 should get the M treatment considering how many times we had to read about how the X5 wasn't worthy of the "M" treatment. There is no market for a CS, but there is a market for a 500hp, 5000lb truck M truck? Somebody is drunk on the koolaid.
Just say that BMW is weary about being able to sell a high-end product because of their past market (though not the cars themselves IMO) flops like the 850i and Z8, not because they can't make money or that a CS would cost too much to develop. BMW got cold feet and blinked, not because any of this "they can't make money" or the "market is gone" nonsense, all the while more Rollers are being designed from the same chassis no less. Market is bad for sure, but it isn't gone and BMW wouldn't be spending a fortune to make the CS since all of the basic hardware is already in production.
Sure crossovers are hot, but they aren't everything and they surely shouldn't become this obsessive focus at BMW. I surely hope things turn around in the next 6-12 months so the CS and other real BMWs can be at least re-considered for production.
M
Again, the same old excuses.
Why is it that Porsche, Aston-Martin, Mercedes, and others can make money from low-volume cars and BMW can't? Or so we're lead to believe.
This about the M3 CSL is BS. If you can spend the money and time to make a 5000lb SUV into an M vehicle then surely you can spend the time and money to turn an existing M product into something even hotter. This about money doesn't wash and it is nonsense.
Please tell me what the difference is between taking an X5 or X6 and turning it into an M vehicle and turning an existing M vehicle into an even hotter product. Hell with the M3 all of the basics are already there!!!!!!! All BMW would be doing it tweaking and adding, no total redesigning of many things or the amount of effort in getting a 5000lb 'truck' to dance like a proper M vehicle.
Again, isn't the CS based on the 7-Series? If so what is the problem? This about people won't buy it is nothing but cop-out plain and simple. If people won't buy a high-end BMW it is because of something BMW is doing wrong, not the market or economy. There is still a market for high-end cars. Everyone hasn't lost their shirt or gone broke yet.
If we're going to blame the market for the cancellation of the CS then why the hell is BMW taking the 7-Series chassis and turning it into a Rolls-Royce? Because the market still exists. BMW not wanting to design, build and sell/market a high-end car is their own problem, not the market or anything else. Others do it.
**** The Mercedes-Benz S-Class facelift was not delayed ******
It was not going to be shown this year anyway. The car is a 2010 model for the U.S. which means a spring/summer 2009 debut in Europe. Mercedes would have hardly shown the Concept Fascination and the facelifted S at the same show.
************ Incorrect Information about the S-Class Facelift ************
Making a high-end car isn't a money losing thing for Porsche, Mercedes and others so why is it a money losing thing at BMW? Even Lamborghini and Aston-Martin are (or were before the sales downturn) showing a profit.
Now you're telling me a company as smart and as financially savy as BMW can't turn a profit on 4-door coupe based on an already existing, pedestrian platform like the 7-Series? A very, extremely dubious arguement. If that is the case then the X6 should be a money loser too, but I bet it isn't.
Now there is a theme at BMW that crossovers are the salvation of the market. Well at what point do you cut the pie into too many slices? V3/PAC, PAS, X5, X6, X3, X1 not to mention their own touring models. How many is enough? When do you reach the point of diminishing returns?
I can understand not doing anything to the M6 (CSL) this late in its life. Kinda pointless since the car has been on the market for 5 years now.
Mercedes is going to cancel the SLC? NOT. The same thing that was said about the X5 and X6 M models apply to the SLC, development is too far along. We've already seen what appears to be an interior mock up.
We're really supposed to believe that taking the 7-Series platform and doing something different with it and charging more won't result in any profit for BMW? While their doing the same thing with the 3-Series platform for the PAC, ditto for the X5 to X6 and 7-Series to Rolls-Royce?
If there is no market for the CS, then there isn't going to be much of a market for a X6M or X5M either. I can see one or the other, but both an X5 and X6 M? Seems to me that only the X6 should get the M treatment considering how many times we had to read about how the X5 wasn't worthy of the "M" treatment. There is no market for a CS, but there is a market for a 500hp, 5000lb truck M truck? Somebody is drunk on the koolaid.
Just say that BMW is weary about being able to sell a high-end product because of their past market (though not the cars themselves IMO) flops like the 850i and Z8, not because they can't make money or that a CS would cost too much to develop. BMW got cold feet and blinked, not because any of this "they can't make money" or the "market is gone" nonsense, all the while more Rollers are being designed from the same chassis no less. Market is bad for sure, but it isn't gone and BMW wouldn't be spending a fortune to make the CS since all of the basic hardware is already in production.
Sure crossovers are hot, but they aren't everything and they surely shouldn't become this obsessive focus at BMW. I surely hope things turn around in the next 6-12 months so the CS and other real BMWs can be at least re-considered for production.
M
Jackbmw
Schwarzwald Sprinter
I am very sceptic about the 3 Series GT.
The only the gap in 3 Series I can see now is a shooting break. But not in the form of 5 door hatchback with a higher roof line.
I'd rather see a car being a combination of 3 Series coupe and touring. Something like 2-door touring but with more aggresive design and lower roof line.
Maybe someone is willing to make a p'shop of it?
The only the gap in 3 Series I can see now is a shooting break. But not in the form of 5 door hatchback with a higher roof line.
I'd rather see a car being a combination of 3 Series coupe and touring. Something like 2-door touring but with more aggresive design and lower roof line.
Maybe someone is willing to make a p'shop of it?
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Guys, BMW are executing a different strategy ...
Eg. comparable Audi models are usually bigger than BMW models - mainly due FWD platform architecture, and also due betting on bigger dimensions in general.
Quite some customers expressed a wish for a bigger & more versatile BMW cars. Therefore - instead of increasing dimensions of core models (like Audi do) - BMW decided to offer extra models: with more space and extra versatility. The Progressive Activity Sedan (5er based) & Coupe (3er based). MB have a similar strategy: although their spacious & versatile models are a bit (mini)van-ish (B-class & R-class), while BMW crossovers will be more exciting - design wise.
Btw, Shooting Brake models are not what BMW customers want.
Regarding X1: European customers want a crossover / SAV smaller than X3 ... some kind of 3er Touring Allroad. And they will get it - in X1 form. Audi have also confirmed Q3 - an X1 rival. And MB will also follow with BLK compact SAV.
Eg. comparable Audi models are usually bigger than BMW models - mainly due FWD platform architecture, and also due betting on bigger dimensions in general.
Quite some customers expressed a wish for a bigger & more versatile BMW cars. Therefore - instead of increasing dimensions of core models (like Audi do) - BMW decided to offer extra models: with more space and extra versatility. The Progressive Activity Sedan (5er based) & Coupe (3er based). MB have a similar strategy: although their spacious & versatile models are a bit (mini)van-ish (B-class & R-class), while BMW crossovers will be more exciting - design wise.
Btw, Shooting Brake models are not what BMW customers want.
Regarding X1: European customers want a crossover / SAV smaller than X3 ... some kind of 3er Touring Allroad. And they will get it - in X1 form. Audi have also confirmed Q3 - an X1 rival. And MB will also follow with BLK compact SAV.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Eg. X1 is based on 3er Touring wheelbase ... so there's more space in there then in a 5dr 1er.
Aslo ... eg. ... 5er PAS is based on LWB 5er wheelbase, while the 3er PAC is expected to based on LWB 3er. So, beside higher roof, also the wheelbase will be longer 3er Touring vs. 3er PAC, or 5er Touring vs 5er PAS.
And again: just like X6 also the PAS & PAC will be something special, and sticking out from the crowd. Being extravagant & practical at the same time.
PAS is has quite a presence, and a very sporty look for a crossover.
Another important point: anti-SUV crossovers like PAS are also sedan alternatives for elderly BMW clients who want higher sitting position (but not too high like in SUV) & more spacious ambient (but for less money then 7er). It was detected by several researches elderly BMW clients would like such a vehicle: spacious & practical, yet sporty & BMWish extravagant. Such people are usually 5er owners, and find X5 too big, 7er too expensive, while they considered X3 as a "downgrade". Same case with little less wealthy 3er customers: 5er too expensive, X3 too big ...
Researches also show PAS will also appeal to female customers, and wealthy young fathers with 1 or 2 children. Mainly customers of vehicles in mid-SUV, large-SUV, or executive sedan / wagon segments.
EnI
Piston Pioneer
Those platforms are modular.
Small platform: for all 1er, 3er & small Z cars & X cars.
Large platform: for 5er, 6er, 7er, PAS, possible 8er, baby RR etc.
X-platform: for medium & large X-models.
Z8 or a supercar would have an alu-mag or na alu-CF spaceframe. RR Phantom as well.
So, it's cheaper to use all the existing platforms for the niche models. And it's flexible too. Especially regarding production.
Palbay
Diesel Dynamiker
Article from Autocar.co.uk on the proposed 3 Series PAS.Sounds like the SC Plant might be in the mix to build the vehicle!!!!
I hope there is some true to that statement!!!! Thanks! PalBay Autocar - BMW confirms 3-series hatch
I hope there is some true to that statement!!!! Thanks! PalBay Autocar - BMW confirms 3-series hatch
Thanks Palbay. There's some interesting detail in that article:
"Designed to offer a slightly higher seating position than the BMW 3-series Touring, the five-seater should also adopt its larger sibling’s two-piece liftback for added versatility."
"To help streamline production, the engines are likely to be drawn from the rest of the BMW 3-series range, with a future line-up of turbocharged four and six-cylinder petrol and diesel units mated to standard manual or optional dual-clutch gearboxes."
"Designed to offer a slightly higher seating position than the BMW 3-series Touring, the five-seater should also adopt its larger sibling’s two-piece liftback for added versatility."
"To help streamline production, the engines are likely to be drawn from the rest of the BMW 3-series range, with a future line-up of turbocharged four and six-cylinder petrol and diesel units mated to standard manual or optional dual-clutch gearboxes."
klier
Premium
SUV is not accepted anymore by manny green people so we go a different route PAS it s just the same only we pick normal models for it and make it an SUV.
You mean, like they made the X5 out of the 5er and the X3 out of the 3er? Nothing new really. All I know is that PAS will be 3.4 times as cool and pretty as the E70 X5.
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BMW
Bayerische Motoren Werke AG, abbreviated as BMW is a German multinational
manufacturer of luxury vehicles and motorcycles headquartered in Munich, Bavaria, Germany.
The company was founded in 1916 as a manufacturer of aircraft engines, which it produced
from 1917 to 1918 and again from 1933 to 1945.
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
Official website: BMW (Global), BMW (USA)
