BMW, Bangle, design & stuff

[EnI]

Re: 21 Questions!

18. Which auto exec do you think is the most influential in the automotive world?
Bangle before he left?

He left where?

He is still there - even more.

Most people do not understand why Bangle's title has changed.

When he came to BMW in 1992, he was brought there to build up the BMW design department again which had been in disastrous situation. First he was responsible for BMW brand, and when Rover, MINI & RR became a part of BMW Group, he was also responsible for these brands as well. Very hard job: to control & lead every single design process for BMW automobiles (inl. M), BMW motorcycles, MINI cars, Rolls-Royce cars, and in certain period even Rover cars (incl Land Rover).

Sub brands (MINI, RR, Motorcycles & M) got their respected chiefs - to unburden Bangle from day-to-day operative jobs, while Bangle still operated & executed all BMW automobile design actions - with a lot of help of Adrian van Hooydonk (in that time director of BMW DesignWorksUSA studio). It was logical to promote AvH as BMW automobile chief of design at some ceritan period - while Bangle officially got the title he de facto had go from the beginning: director of BMW Group design - which also includes DesignWorksUSA non-automotive operations!!! So - indirectly - Bangle is also responsible for eg. jets , tractors, bycicles, electronic devices DesignWorks USA designs.

Bangle is still very present in design policy making of BMW brand & all other brands in BMW portfolio.

It's wrong to think Bangle's influence on BMW design has been anyhow reduced. Yet still his most important role is to persuade Board of Directors which design proposal is the best and why is it so. He advocates the ideas & designs.

But still - it's not only Bangle's credit BMW Group produces such designs: it's also a credit of main design strategists, and especially a credit of Directors board which supports such bold ideas.

I'm sure other car makers have excellent designers with great ideas, but most ideas get suppressed by the management. Not so much in BMW case. Sometimes some great ideas just have to live on because of their greatness - even at risk of smaller commercial success. But to prevent drop in commercial success you have to also have an excellent marketing department. And BMW have it all.

 

[SDNR]

Re: 21 Questions!

I really admire Chris Bangle, he has absolutely revolutionized BMW. BMW has become a thoroughly design-led company -- this is not just a superficial thing -- it is more an ethos, a philosophy with which the entire brand identifies itself. Everything from the engineering to the marketing follows this bold design-led philosophy.

Other car manufacturers still view their design departments as merely the 'styling' aspect of the company -- Bangle has shown very clearly that design can be the way a company identifies itself and the point of departure for all other aspects of the company's operations. BMW has a very clear understanding of itself, its ambitions and intentions -- more so than any other German car manufacturer ...and Bangle can be thanked for much of that.

 

[EnI]

Re: 21 Questions!

I really admire Chris Bangle, he has absolutely revolutionized BMW. BMW has become a thoroughly design-led company -- this is not just a superficial thing -- it is more an ethos, a philosophy with which the entire brand identifies itself. Everything from the engineering to the marketing follows this bold design-led philosophy.

Other car manufacturers still view their design departments as merely the 'styling' aspect of the company -- Bangle has shown very clearly that design can be the way a company identifies itself and the point of departure for all other aspects of the company's operations. BMW has a very clear understanding of itself, its ambitions and intentions -- more so than any other German car manufacturer ...and Bangle can be thanked for much of that.

Sorry guys fro going OT again, but this will be the last post - if necessary I'll move these posts to a new thread.

So ...

The point behind Bangle is BMW AG knew what they wanted, and they thought Bangle would be the best person to realize all the plans & expectations. It was a consensus made by mine investors (= Quandts), and the board of Directors of that time - when BMW already had an ambition to become #1 premium maker - by acquiring many brands / companies such as RR / Bentley, Range-Rover, and even Porsche. So they wanted a person who would be able to built a design department for the whole group, be creative & have a vision. Bangle proved a perfect choice. Yet still when he co-existed with Reitzle (Development chief) his ideas were suppressed by Reitzle many times, since Reitzle's influence on BMW design was significant in 90s. When Ritzle was fired Bangle got an opportunity to do hids job properly. I remember a fight about 7er design - especially front & rear: Reitzle opposed the design strongly, yet was outvoted. After he was gone other radical designs were approved: Z4, 5er, 6er, X3 etc. Yet still when Reitzle was still a member of BMW BoD, the BoD decided BMW design to go avant-garde. Yet Reitzle had a different vision - since he had more conservative design taste.

So, Bangle led the design revolution, and now he leads a consolidation after the revolution - and I guess already planning another revolution.

 

[SDNR]

Re: 21 Questions!

I would love to continue this discussion Eni.

Can I just add that I'm not so sure that it is the radicalism of Bangle's designs that are of the greatest significance ...but rather the way the entire company is in tune with itself ...BMW has developed a design culture which permeates every aspect of the company.

I believe the real success of BMW's design is more due to its strong philosophical base. The radical aspects of its styling are all part of this philosophy of cutting-edge thinking, inspired and informed by the best creative minds working at the highest levels of science and culture throughout the world.

Audi have learned from this. Mercedes unfortunately seems to think it's all about styling. The difference with BMW is the styling is backed up with a full understanding of its intentions. BMW design is not only skin deep ....I honestly don't think I can say the same for Mercedes at present.

 

[EnI]

Re: 21 Questions!

I would love to continue this discussion Eni.

Can I just add that I'm not so sure that it is the radicalism of Bangle's designs that are of the greatest significance ...but rather the way the entire company is in tune with itself ...BMW has developed a design culture which permeates every aspect of the company.

I believe the real success of BMW's design is more due to its strong philosophical base. The radical aspects of its styling are all part of this philosophy of cutting-edge thinking, inspired and informed by the best creative minds working at the highest levels of science and culture throughout the world.

Audi have learned from this. Mercedes unfortunately seems to think it's all about styling. The difference with BMW is the styling is backed up with a full understanding of its intentions. BMW design is not only skin deep ....I honestly don't think I can say the same for Mercedes at present.

True.

The design orientation of BMW is deeper. But it wasn't so in the past.
Dedication to design orientation is credit of ex-development chief Wolfgang Reitzle. He - and a long-time CEO Ebrhard von Kuenheim - are two of the most important & at the same time tragic personas in BMW recent history.

It was basically Reitzle's idea to make BMW a #1 premium automaker: by acquiring Mini, LandRover, RR/Bentley & Aston Martin (later Porsche when AM had already been sold to Ford). As we know part of that plan is realized, but the price was enormous (Rover debacle).

So, Reitzle was very design oriented guy. He loved to interfere in design issues & he was the real decision maker regarding design. BMW design department was deep down in late 80s / early 90s - so BMW was somehow forced to outsource some design work - they hired DesignWorks in mid-80s. And then in early 90s bought a stake in DW - to get some American ideas, and later acquired it completely. Also due Bangle's persistence - who insisted DesignWork was essential to future BMW design policy.

Reitzle knew design would be very important differential factor in the future - and that BMW design department needed a boost. So he hired Bangle in 1992 because of his visions, motivation abilities & exceptional leading skills. Something BMW design dept. lacked & desperately needed.

Bangle did a brilliant job: reorganizing design dept., implement design values into company's culture again, serving Reitzle very well. Reitzle was still the alpha-and-omega of BMW design decision making. He and Bangle had different visions: BMW design visions were more ambitious, and designs much more daring & wild. When Reizle was fired after Rover debacle, Bangle took complete control after BMW design - new development chiefs did not interfere in design work at all (like Reitzle did). So Bangle's avant-garde vision prevailed. He succeed to persuade BoD that avant-garde design was the way to go with BMW brand: since would fit the dynamic & pioneering brand the best.

And so here we are today: BMW one of the leading design companies. Not only in automotive world, but also - due DesignWorks - also in other industrial design. Also a dedication to design is seen elsewhere: new Zaha Hadid's plant in Lepizig, futuristic BMW Welt (under construction), sponsoring design events & competitions, sponsoring modern art (incl. film & music).

Innovations & design (both = fresh ideas) became core values in BMW corporate culture. Also marketing started to take advantage out of that new situation: portraying BMW AG & BMW brand as something fresh, innovative & intellectual. Someone who is not afraid to lead, and to be a pioneer. BMW became a brand of the brave & dare.

 

[SDNR]

Re: 21 Questions!

Brilliant post Eni ...very interesting and extremely well written. I'll give you some karma for your effort

 

[LaArtist]

Re: 21 Questions!

stop talkin about bangle..starting to get pissed off..

 

[SDNR]

Re: 21 Questions!

stop talkin about bangle..starting to get pissed off..

LOL.

The thing is Artist, DCX could learn a lot from BMW ...and they probably already have.

 

[EnI]

Re: 21 Questions!

stop talkin about bangle..starting to get pissed off..

OK. Let Bangle speaks for himself.

http://vodcast.bmw.com/static/bmwvodcast/files/vids/02DesignOverview.mp4

 

[LaArtist]

Re: 21 Questions!

LOL.

The thing is Artist, DCX could learn a lot from BMW ...and they probably already have.

sure they can learn..
after all the world learned how to make cars from MB..so i guess it time to take back..

PS
Yes very OT..

 

[Sayyaaf]

Re: 21 Questions!

This is the kind of discussion I love to read. keep it coming guys.