8 Series BMW 8 series to compete with Mercedes CLS?

[EMpower]

Any truth to this or just someone's creative mind?

http://thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com/2006/11/bmw-8-series-to-compete-with-mercedes.html

 

[Bruce]

The picture is defientley a photoshop, as for the actual idea of the vehicle i highly doubt it. Tine, where are you?

 

[EnI]

Yes.

A creative idea. Also on the desks at BMW AG.

AutoBild has already reported about it: project LC5 (Limousine-Coupe-5). It's basically a 5-door 6-series. Code name F14 (F12 6er coupe, F13 6er cabrio). A 5dr coupe: just like upcoming Panamera or AM Rapide.

There is still no green light for F14!!!

While F12 & F13 are coming in early 2011. With evolutionary general shape, yet better integrated controversial design elements like "Bangle-but".

F10 5-series coming a year earlier (2010) will be even sportier looking than E60: longer wheelbase, larger wheels, higher shoulder line, shallower greenhouse, sloppier roof, shorter front overhang, shorter rear end, with evolutionary flame-surfaced "skin" design. Much more coupeish looking, yet still a functional sedan wih enough space at the rear seats.

The problem is that LC5 looks a bit redundant. The next 5er will be more coupeish, next 6er larger (cabrio as CC with a metal roof), next Z8 as a CC roadster, or canvas roadster + hardtop coupe (maybe even under 8er badge), next F01 7er more sportier & sleeker. BMW also dreaming about 9-series: a Bentley, Aston Martin (Rapide) & Porsche Panamera fighter - a large 4dr coupe/sedan.

Nothing is yet decided!

But BMW is considering a 4dr coupe - beyond X6 (which is internally considered as a BMW's interpretation of 4dr coupe). Whether the project will get a green line, and what badge will it wear (6er, 8er, or 9er) it is still unknown and undecided!

IMO a 8er/9er ultra-luxury BMW-badged 4dr coupe/sedan (like CLS) has a great chance to get a green light - in order to fill the gap between F02 LWB 7er (which is taking on Bentley Conti Flying Spur) & Baby RR line (sedan, coupe & cabrio).

So, the upper BMW model line will consist of:

5-series F10: a ultra-dynamic avant-garde coupeish-looking executive sedan + F11 shooting brake-looking wagon; fighting both E-class & CLS
6-series: F12 classic 4-seater GT coupe + F13 CC version; more avant-garde & distinctive than classic 3er coupe & CC
V5: luxury sport cruiser - a huge-hatch-looking crossover with all the luxury & versatility; a much sportier alternative to a too-van-looking R-class
X5: sport activity vehicle - a sporty SUV (with optionaly 3rd row seats taking on both ML & GL)
X6: sport activity coupe - an all-purpose coupe
7-series: sporty F01 SWB (incl possible M7), luxurious F02 LWB: severe design differences between F01 & F02
Z8 / 8er: ultra-sporty & very luxurious big 2-seater roadster & coupe - maybe even under 8er badge - (SL fighter); incl Z8 M / M8
IMO 9er: sporty & ultra-luxurious 4dr 4-seater big coupe/sedan (a CL fighter - yet with 4dr; a direct competitor to AM Rapide, Porsche Panamera Turbo, Bentley Continental GT); a M GmbH Individual project - with 970i V12 turbo only & Hydrogen 9 variant.

Maybe Scott has something new to add.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Excellent info EnI, as always.

I can understand why a F14 (4rd 6 Series) would become irrelavant when the next 5 Series becomes more coupe-ish. The two models would probably be too similar in concept.

As for an 8 Series/Z8 replacement, i've always thought the 6 Series was the successor. It was suppose to compete against the SL, XKR, 911, Maserati etc.

If an 8 Series were to be released, BMW run the risk of the car being too similar to the 6 Series just as a F14 6 Series coupe would be too similar to the F10 5 Series.

 

[GTA45E]

Very interesting concept and news... If BMW gives this cars the green light I`m sure the sales would be off the hook! The design would surly look more upscale than this ps suggests.

 

[EnI]

As for an 8 Series/Z8 replacement, i've always thought the 6 Series was the successor. It was suppose to compete against the SL, XKR, 911, Maserati etc.

If an 8 Series were to be released, BMW run the risk of the car being too similar to the 6 Series just as a F14 6 Series coupe would be too similar to the F10 5 Series.

Z8 Coupe / 8er will be a 2-seater performance coupe, not a 4-seater GT like 6er. Also the cars will be in a different price league.

Mind that - according to my info - it is still not decided whether Z8 will be a CC roadster, or a Z8 canvas roadster + Z8 hardtop coupe (Z4 formula). Nor the name is chosen: Z8 or 8er. Imagine such car as a bigger brother of Z4.


Btw, the PS (chopped 6er + E92) has nothing to do with a real deal.

 

[klier]

Eni, don't you think every new cabrio made by BMW from now on will have a CC like roof?
In particular a roadster type of car, where the roof is much smaller and easier to make (two way folding roof rather than three way)

I mean, if the 'low end' 3er already has a hardtop, people will be pissed if a newer and more expensive BMW doesn't have it. I would!

 

[EnI]

Eni, don't you think every new cabrio made by BMW from now on will have a CC like roof?
In particular a roadster type of car, where the roof is much smaller and easier to make (two way folding roof rather than three way)

I mean, if the 'low end' 3er already has a hardtop, people will be pissed if a newer and more expensive BMW doesn't have it. I would!

It's pretty much confirmed F13 6er will have a metal folding roof lik E92. While 2er coupe will have a canvas.

Yes, I'm pretty much sure Z8 will be a CC too. But BMW want to have true a 2-seater coupe as well, so ... Maybe they will produce a CC and a coupe - like they did with 3er - but the latest info I had they also considered canvas roadster & a coupe: like in a Z4 case. Yet nothing is known yet. Also no info on future Z4 (CC or canvas?).

But mind: Z8 / 8er will be a performance model so a low weight will be a crucial factor there. Therefore I guess they are considering canvas too. Unless they will produce a CF folding roof at the end.

 

[warot]

I think I'm in love with that PS. I have no idea why.

 

[Osnabrueck]

Eni is right. The LC5 would be redundant.

The CLS was a reaction to a hole in the Benz lineup that needed plugging because the market has trended twoards sports sedans over the past 10 years. Since the E-Klasse is such a staple of the Benz universe, it would be much better to create a more focused car using existing assets than it would be to tinker with success. Because of the CLS, Merc gets it both ways - they can keep serving their E-Klasse constituency and keep the status quo while at the same time use the CLS to satisfy demands on the sports-sedan end of the spectrum.

And with Aston Martin and Porsche, the roles are reversed. People are looking for the sports-car experience of those brands with the convenience and practicality of a sedan. Again, a hole is being filled.

With BMW, there's no hole to be filled because all their cars are by default, sporty. The 5er is already agressive, and presumably the F10 will be even more agressive - so where is the room for a 4dr coupe when the sedan cousin is already so damn agressive? A sedan-ified BMW coupe would be just too similar in execution to the 5er itself so I just don't see it.

Remember - new products are built when holes are found in other lineups. We love to imagine that "BMW will fight model X with model Y" because it makes for good comparative threads where we can sling mud at each other and root for out favorite brand. In reality, our favorite brands are constantly trying to outsmart each other by finding exploitable holes that their competitors have yet to address. For that reason, BMW will probably never have a direct competitor to the CL or SL, and Mercedes will never directly rival the 6er.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Good post Osnabrueck!

Thats a pretty good explanation of the logic behind BMW's product strategy.

Because the new 5er will be more aggressive in the exterior, will this new aggressiveness be reflected in the engineering? is it more sporty with sharper dynamics and improved performance? it doesn't make sense if BMW were to release a sportier-looking 5 without the dynamics to match.

If the new 5er isn't as dynamic as it looks will suggest, maybe a LC5 would make sense. A LC5 would have both the looks and engineering thats consistent with a true sports car.

What are the engineering objectives of the new 5er? because all we've heard about is the design objectives

Thanks EnI

 

[PanterroR]

Eni is right. The LC5 would be redundant.

The CLS was a reaction to a hole in the Benz lineup that needed plugging because the market has trended twoards sports sedans over the past 10 years. Since the E-Klasse is such a staple of the Benz universe, it would be much better to create a more focused car using existing assets than it would be to tinker with success. Because of the CLS, Merc gets it both ways - they can keep serving their E-Klasse constituency and keep the status quo while at the same time use the CLS to satisfy demands on the sports-sedan end of the spectrum.

And with Aston Martin and Porsche, the roles are reversed. People are looking for the sports-car experience of those brands with the convenience and practicality of a sedan. Again, a hole is being filled.

With BMW, there's no hole to be filled because all their cars are by default, sporty. The 5er is already agressive, and presumably the F10 will be even more agressive - so where is the room for a 4dr coupe when the sedan cousin is already so damn agressive? A sedan-ified BMW coupe would be just too similar in execution to the 5er itself so I just don't see it.

Remember - new products are built when holes are found in other lineups. We love to imagine that "BMW will fight model X with model Y" because it makes for good comparative threads where we can sling mud at each other and root for out favorite brand. In reality, our favorite brands are constantly trying to outsmart each other by finding exploitable holes that their competitors have yet to address. For that reason, BMW will probably never have a direct competitor to the CL or SL, and Mercedes will never directly rival the 6er.

Karma given, Josh!

 

[Osnabrueck]

Think about it this way Car Guy - What specific problem did the CLS address for dealing with the prospective Mercedes buyer? Was it an issue of actual performance, or was it an issue of image/product type?

Of course, it was the latter. The CLS wasn't designed to be a barn-burner performance car, it was designed to appeal to Mercedes prospectives who were turned-off by the relatively placid and geriatric image of the E-Klasse. It was best for Mercedes to split strengths and address two kinds of buyers than it was to compromise with a more agressive E-Klasse.

Which brings us to the matter of the F10 5er. The current 5er is already a car very agressive luxury sedan, and there's no reason to believe that BMW will be dialing that back anytime soon. If anything, new technologies will bleed into the F10 and allow an even more agressive 5er with nice little "Off" buttons to provide cosseting when needed.

So yes - the agressiveness will absolutely be reflected in the engineering, because that's BMW's method. All their platforms are "born" agressive, and the various models grow out from that.

Take into consideration the 5er versus the 6er. Is the 6er really more agressive than the 5er? Not really. Trim for trim, the behavior of these two cousins is nearly on parity. The 6er gains a dynamic edge thanks to the coupe platform, but the difference is relatively minute when compared to how different these cars seem in our imagination.

Guess what I'm getting at is that the F10 5er will certainly be as dynamic and agressive as BMW can reasonably attempt. A car that goes further than that would neither be profitable or appealing to consumers.

 

[Sayyaaf]

I know those PSs are totally off .. but this is great ... BTW guys I purchased my first BMW. 750Li fully loaded if anyone is interested

 

[Osnabrueck]

I purchased my first BMW. 750Li fully loaded if anyone is interested

Oh, is that all? Ha!

Congratulations man. Post some photos when you get the chance.

 

[LaArtist]

omg that chop is so wrong from the rear..
it looks like a person sucking their cheeks in to look like a fish..catastrophic..bmw wouldnt make that

PS
The front isnt anything speciall either imho

 

[SCOTT27]

That is a reconfigured digital rendering of a BMW M6 press image, nothing more , nothing less...

If BMW do green light a car like this then it will not be aimed directly @ the CLS, that gives the game away . It will be a premium product sitting above or below the 7er . And not aimed at the CLS directly but a segment one or two steps above.
To show that they are not following the carbon copy look of the CLS which apparently Audi are also working on - BMW's so called "mobile communication Statements" (a vehicle that stands out from it's manufacturers product identity which the CLS-Mercedes-Benz accomplishes.)
Will be the RFK and the X6. Two vehicles that will stand out from BMW's regular product line up.
BMW are well adapt for creating a new segment .

 

[klier]

The car won't get the green light. Not for the next 5 years at least. And that PS is indeed based off the 6er, but it has a lot of E92 in the front design.

MJaaFY, that's really awesome dude. Pics and a small review would be much appreciated!

 

[PanterroR]

I like the front in that PS! Rear is wrong, though...

MJaaFY, new 7er? Congratulations, man! Pics of course...

 

[Sayyaaf]

Sure sure guys ... I just don't have the time to post even .. my job is killing me .. the first time ever I visit the site and see 500+ unread posts

Anyways I'l post a review sooon ...