6 Series BMW 6-Series Gran Coupe First Drives/Reviews

[EnI]

@K-A

Did Maybach drivers cared they were driving a car based on some ancient S-class platform?
Also ... platform sharing is the future. Expect common platforms in the future. One or two, maybe three per carmaker.

Do you really think that in the price segment of €80k people seek best value? Premium cars usually are not as prone to value-for-money scrutinizing as their economy-segment peers. It's obvious you are overpaying a premium car anyway ... So, why not picking a VW CC instead when in love with 4dr coupes? It costs as much as eg BMW 1er, A3, A-class.

 

[Deckhook]

^ I can't agree that value for money doesn't count, we aren't talking about young teenagers here that just have to have the things they like, we are talking about astute business persons who know the value of money and respect it's importance. Sure if they want it they will have to means to afford it but they will still notice the extra premium BMW are placing on it and how it's much greater than either of the others.

 

[Giannis]

Value of money is not a priority in that segment. Style, design, status and stuff like that are important.

Value of money is important for one that buys a Huyndai, not a BMW.

 

[EnI]

If value-per-money is an important issue in premium segments ... why then people still buy BMW or MB over Audi.

 

[K-A]

@K-A

Did Maybach drivers cared they were driving a car based on some ancient S-class platform?

I'd think so. That was one of the reasons as to why the Maybach was a failure. At least it can be chalked up to how lousily M-B hid the fact that it was a gussied up S-Class (riding on an old S-Class platform at the time, to boot).

 

[Deckhook]

Value of money is important for one that buys a Huyndai, not a BMW.

I gobsmacked that you genuinely believe this to be true.

 

[Giannis]

I am with EnI on this one, so yes, I do believe that in that price segment we are talking about, the 6GC one, value for money is not important for a potential buyer.

 

[Deckhook]

I am with EnI on this one, so yes, I do believe that in that price segment we are talking about, the 6GC one, value for money is not important for a potential buyer.

Less important maybe but of no important sorry I can't agree. Value comes in many ways and this will be different for every person, for some it might be style for others it's uniqueness and exclusivity but for others they may well just see a sleeker looking 5 series alternative at £21k more. That is why it's numbers won't approach anything like the CLS/A7 I feel, never mind it's closest relative.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Do you really think that in the price segment of €80k people seek best value?

Of course they do. My R8 V10 cost significantly more than the 6er GC and the €80K you mention, but it doesn't mean I couldn't care less about value for money.

You seem to state things in black and white, when nothing is ever as simple as that. I do like the 6er and the 6er GC, but if I was buying new, I would seriously have to question whether they were worth the extra money over the CLS or the A7. Yes, I'd say that the 6er is a better car than both of those, BUT, it's also significantly more expensive. Put it this way, you could have an A7 AND a little city runabout OR a used hot hatch for the price of ONE 6er GC. That would make me think.

I'm sure I'm not the only person in the world with these views.....

 

[K-A]

It's crazy to think that people spending $100K on cars care little about the value of money, or BMW buyers, or Merc buyers, etc. Just go peruse the 5-Series boards and see how many people don't tick certain options because they specifically give them "little value for the money", or who don't buy the 550i because it doesn't give them enough value for the money, etc.

 

[chonkoa]

What did you expect? 6er GC to be 10k cheaper than 6er Coupe, so it could compete directly with CLS & A7?

Of course, do you think I will be expecting it to cost significantly more than the vehicles it was intended to compete with?
The original premise for the GC was to have it as a rival to the A7 and CLS, so the logical price bracket is that price range.

6er Coupe & Cabrio have always been positioned above CLS & A7. And therefore it's logical GranCoupe is priced in the same bracket as the other two 6er models - and not in a price bracket below, where CLS & A7 are.

Inserting the 6er Coupe & Cabrio into the CLS & A7 equation is just conflation of the point. The Coupe and Cabrio have been in the market before the A7 and CLS as such competition-wise they were not after the same clients. The CLS and then the A7 catered to customers that wanted something sporty & unique with 4 doors. The GrandCoupe was BMW's attempt to capture some of that market but I guess price-point was the big conundrum since it was based on the 6er platform.

High price makes the 6er GC a sportier alternative to 7er, not to 5er. While A7 & CLS are priced closer to E & A6.

This is a classical case of a massive dichotomy between price and valuation. It may be priced really high but is it valued that much?

Regarding the sales results ... the interest in the care is HUGE. But everybody is aware it won't sell in the 30+k/year figures like A7 & CLS do. Eg. Panamera annual sales were 22.550 units in 2010, and 26.800 in 2011. Yet Panamera is Porsche's the one & only 4dr sedan /coupe-sedan. While BMW customers also have 5er & 7er as an alternative, and also 6er Coupe & 6er Cabrio as well. Meaning the sales distribution between models is definitely present, while that's hardly an issue in Panamera case.

I can imagine 6er GC selling @ half of A7/CLS annual sales figures ... meaning @ ~16-18k units per whole year, max 20k. Anything above 20k/year will be a huge surprise to me. And anything bellow 15k/year a disappointment.

We can both agree it will be a low volume seller, and in my opinion will be a 10K/year volume.
GCoupe will probably take 10% of Panamera, 10% of A7&CLS combined volume and 20% of 7er and another 10% of 6er Coupe.
It isn't distinctively unique like the main competitors to shift the centre of gravity.

 

[EnI]

6er GC is expected to be best selling 6er, generating more sales than coupe & cabrio combined. So it will be THE 6-series. While Coupe & cabrio will be second fiddles of 6-Series. So coupe & cabrio will be compared to GC, and not the other way around. If not initially, after few years definitely.

Mind 6er GC is a downsized replacement for CS (8er 4dr) which was ditched, and replaced with less expensive 6er GC. BMW never planned a direct (price) rival to A7 & CLS. They already have two large 4dr hatchbacks in this segment: 5er GT & X6. 6er GC - price wise - competes with Panamera. And be sure it will find its buyers ... if not in US, be sure ME, China, Russia will go crazy for it. The same like happened with X6 & 5er GT - not very desired in US, but selling well elsewhere, especially the X6.

In 2012 China is overtaking US as BMW's biggest single market! So ... Be sure BMW will find enough buyers for 6er GC ... even with crazy high price sticker. Mind the high-end premium cars sold in China, ME, Russia are usually fully loaded with options - so they are sold @ max price possible (minus the rebates). Eg. a vast majority of 6ers & 7ers sold in China are Individual.

 

[Deckhook]

^Regardless of what some here might believe the reality is that the BMW brand in general hasn't nor never will have the kudos of the Porsche brand and pricing it to match the Panamera is very brave or very foolish.

 

[EnI]

7er is already priced in the Panamera price region, and it sells great. Everywhere.
X6 & Cayenne are also in the same price segment. And X6 sells extremely well.

Sure 6er GC wears 6er badge & exterior design ... But that doesn't make it inferior to 7er.Especially not in this generation - being based on same platform as 7er, and looking & feeling much more upscale than E63/64 6er.

6er prices have always been on par with 7er prices, way beyond 5er.

6er is not a direct CLS/A7 rival. Not in price, not in sales. Only in size. But segments are not defined by size only.
6er is a rival of Porsche Panamera & Jaguar XK, yet positioned below Maserati GranTurismo.

Sure sales would be higher (and price lower) with eg 5er GranCoupe. Yet mind the 6er GC is a Plan B solution - after CS was ditched. And BMW hadn't have other option than to price 6er GC between the 6er copue & 6er cabrio. Pricing 6er GC 10k lower than 6er GC would be insane.

BMW brand not having enough cachet? Things change. In the past BMW wasn't a direct MB rival. Nor was Audi on par with BMW & MB etc ...

 

[chonkoa]

It's crazy to think that people spending $100K on cars care little about the value of money, or BMW buyers, or Merc buyers, etc. Just go peruse the 5-Series boards and see how many people don't tick certain options because they specifically give them "little value for the money", or who don't buy the 550i because it doesn't give them enough value for the money, etc.

The ones that never worked hard for it will care little about the value of money.

 

[chonkoa]

6er is not a direct CLS/A7 rival. Not in price, not in sales. Only in size. But segments are not defined by size only.
6er is a rival of Porsche Panamera & Jaguar XK, yet positioned below Maserati GranTurismo.

Sure sales would be higher (and price lower) with eg 5er GranCoupe. Yet mind the 6er GC is a Plan B solution - after CS was ditched. And BMW hadn't have other option than to price 6er GC between the 6er copue & 6er cabrio. Pricing 6er GC 10k lower than 6er GC would be insane.

Insanity is expecting people to pay over and above what the competition is with marginal differentiation unless the people are insane of course.
Most of the reviews clearly pits the GCoupe against the A7 and CLSerception is reality my friend. So it does appear to me that there is a disconnect between where the market sees the GCoupe and where BMW sees the Gcoupe. This is the first sign of problem, you are into marketing so you should understand this concept.

Are you saying that the price point of the Gcoupe is actually that of the CS and that BMW is trying to maximise profit by offering nothing substantial.

 

[EnI]

Such cars are not meant for people who struggle for money.

Anyway ... you Americans have a privilege of lowest car prices in the world, I guess. So, I don't know why the rant.

 

[chonkoa]

Such cars are not meant for people who struggle for money.

Anyway ... you Americans have a privilege of lowest car prices in the world, I guess. So, I don't know why the rant.

I guess some people enjoy paying too much.
We don't earn as much as you guys and our standard of living is quite low so we have to constantly complain for a better deal.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

BMW never planned a direct (price) rival to A7 & CLS. They already have two large 4dr hatchbacks in this segment: 5er GT & X6.

You're saying BMW never planned a direct rival to the A7 or CLS because they already offer a 4-door "hatchback" in that "segment"....the X6? Er, OK.

7er is already priced in the Panamera price region, and it sells great. Everywhere.

So you think that because the 7 Series is the same price as the Panamera, and it's still selling, BMW are successfully competing with Porsche?! That's logic I cannot comprehend.

The 7 Series is still selling for the same reason people are buying the S-Class and the A8. The Panamera really isn't a consideration of the 7 Series/S-Class/A8 customers, for many reasons. It's not because people are looking at a Panamera, then looking at a 7er, and saying to themselves, "you know what, that BMW really is as good if not better than that Porsche".

 

[EnI]

We guys?

You guys in US earn quite a lot, and having quite low taxes ... yet you have to pay many services directly since they are provided by private sector. Here in Europe average net income is lower (due higher taxes) but public sector still offers quite OK (free) services (payed by state via taxes). Eg. medical care, social care, education etc.

Not to mention the loans & leases are much cheaper in US than in Europe, where financial sector is not as competitive as the one in US. So, it's much easier to afford a BMW or MB in US than in Europe!

Mind that eg. BMW sales in Germany (and in Europe as well) are by business customers - so by entrepreneurs, small & midsize company owners. Not by individual customers (non-business owners; employees).

Anyway ... a corporation doesn't bother if you can't afford (or not willing to afford) its product, when there is another customer somewhere in the world who is willing to pay high(er) price for the same product, being able & willing to afford it. Yep, globalization is cruel. Especially when high demand elsewhere dictates the prices. Meaning our standard is lower (eg. some goods & services are becoming out of our reach).

But be sure the Chinese will provide us with their own cars soon ... economy ones for $5k, and luxury ones for $10k. Just like we have already being able to buy other cheap goods Made in China.