6 Series BMW 6-Series Gran Coupe First Drives/Reviews

[Betty Swollocks]

Clearly I was not talking about that later post. It would make little sense for me to even consider that later post if I'm shooting down your theory that you were only interested in a BMW vs BMW price comparison.

Good grief. I was just explaining why I'd forgotten I'd mentioned the A7 and hot hatch! It's because subsequently I talked about a 535d and a hot hatch! What the Hell is wrong with you?

All you've done is explain why you wouldn't personally buy one

And this is wrong because......?

(and I have no problem with that)

Clearly.

 

[Guibo]

Clearly they aren't going to sell in the kind of numbers that an A7 or CLS will but that isn't nor has been my point and I not think has been Betty's point either. Our complaint is the opinion that the 6GC is somehow worth more than either of these others. To me it shows total disrespect from there core customer base and the only people defending this pricing policy are true fanboys.

But shouldn't that have been your point? I don't think it's outside the realm of premium marques to ask high prices for low-volume models (even on models with little to no change in body structures from their more common counterparts).
True fanboys of what? When I use the same logic of free market forces to defend the pricing policy of the R8 GT, LFA, Porsche Sport Classic, Reventon, One-77, does that make me a "true fanboy" of Audi/Lexus/Porsche/Lambo/Aston? Or is it more likely that I'm subscribing to a tried and true tenet of the free market that has been around for centuries?
Describe for me the "core customer base" of BMW as it is in 2012. Is it the M3 buyers who buy the car on the basis that is merely the top of the line model of its segment? Is it those "hardcore" customers who piled back A/C and radio options onto some 90% of CSLs? With China looming large as BMW's potentially biggest market in years to come, I don't think you really know who the "core customer base" really is.

 

[Guibo]

Good grief. I was just explaining why I'd forgotten I'd mentioned the A7 and hot hatch! It's because subsequently I talked about a 535d and a hot hatch! What the Hell is wrong with you?

Nothing is wrong with me. I said that you had mentioned the A7, to which you replied I had "imagined" that you had. It doesn't matter why you'd forgotten it (although trying to distance yourself from claims made about other manufacturers would be a good starting point). The simple fact is I hadn't imagined it.

And this is wrong because......?

Did I said this is wrong where....?
I'm just explaining why the 6er GC might not necessarily be overpriced. You, on the other hand, seem to be painting BMW as an unscrupulous company that is trying to bilk money from an undiscerning public who doesn't know that a 5er exists, doesn't know that a 5er and hothatch can exist for money similar to a 6er GC. On top of that, you can't even seem to make a cogent argument against the concept that things are priced in a free market in accordance to what customers are willing to pay. Ie, something is "overpriced" even if people, who are apparently intelligent enough to have earned enough to drop 60 large on a luxury item, are willing to pay for it.

 

[Deckhook]

Sunny, I can't speak for the US market but here the difference in price between Golf and A3 is a few hundred pounds not twenty grand and in my opinion brand status has a tangible worth, it's why an R8 is £115-120k and a Lambo considerably more. If you want to make an example then please keep it within a single brand otherwise it makes no sense.

 

[Sunny]

Sunny, I can't speak for the US market but here the difference in price between Golf and A3 is a few hundred pounds not twenty grand and in my opinion brand status has a tangible worth, it's why an R8 is £115-120k and a Lambo considerably more. If you want to make an example then please keep it within a single brand otherwise it makes no sense.

Why, what grand law of nature or money says only brand has 'tangible' worth (do you even know what the term tangible worth means?) but somehow a different body/style/premium model has no worth?

Clearly they aren't going to sell in the kind of numbers that an A7 or CLS will but that isn't nor has been my point and I not think has been Betty's point either. Our complaint is the opinion that the 6GC is somehow worth more than either of these others. To me it shows total disrespect from there core customer base and the only people defending this pricing policy are true fanboys.

Lol, so the grand f#cking point you are making in all these posts (and according to you, Betty too) is that BMW doesn't respect it's 'core' customers (whoever the f#ck that is) cause of the way their price 6GC. While other car corporations do and price their products with respect for their customers.

I am just going to let the sheer ridiculousness of that marinate in.

 

[Ultimate Car Guy]

Deckhook, your posts don't make any sense at all. Seriously. I don't even know where to begin.

 

[Betty Swollocks]

You, on the other hand, seem to be painting BMW as an unscrupulous company that is trying to bilk money from an undiscerning public.

Really? Allow me to quote myself. All these posts were made in this very thread and the oldest one is only 48 hours old.

company is reaping a large profit margin (not saying BMW is wrong for doing that)

BMW are not forcing anybody to buy a 6 Series are they?

there is a certain amount of "creaming" going on of profits. I'm not blaming BMW for doing that, I hasten to add.

I actually love the 6 Series Coupe. I drove one a couple of weeks ago over 2,000km and I posted my thoughts here.

I don't blame BMW for maximising profits.

BMW are selling the 6 Series for a massively inflated price. I don't blame them. It's a free market and people can buy what they like. If somebody wants to spend their money on a 6 Series then good on them.

You have a very strange idea of "painting BMW as an unscrupulous company......."

 

[Betty Swollocks]

(and according to you, Betty too) is that BMW doesn't respect it's 'core' customers.

Excuse me, I've never said that at all, and neither do I think that. See my above post.

 

[Sunny]

Excuse me, I've never said that at all, and neither do I think that. See my above post.

Yes, I know, but apparently not Deckhook, who seems to love to include you in his cuckoo claims.

 

[Deckhook]

Why, what grand law of nature or finance says only brand has 'tangible' worth (do you even know what the term tangible worth means?) but somehow a different body/style/premium model has no worth?

Everything has its worth including shape and bodytype, the question is how much and according to BMW's direct competitors that worth has already been decided with both the CLS and A7. BMW are maximising profits with this one like they did with the first gen 6er and as before it's the original buyer that will take all of the hit in the pocket which is the opposite with a 3 series coupe.

P.S. you never did answer my question of paying $98k (UK prices) for a 640GC.

 

[Deckhook]

Lol, so the grand f#cking point you are making in all these posts (and according to you, Betty too) is that BMW doesn't respect it's 'core' customers (whoever the f#ck that is) cause of the way their price 6GC. While other car corporations do and price their products with respect for their customers.

I didn't include Betty in this but we are in agreement that BMW are asking way too much for it. Oh and in my opinion RRP isn't and never has been the true worth of a car, it's the value it retains after a year because that's the figure the trade put on it and in the UK market that basically places the 6er worth little more than a regular 5. I'll be watching to see with anything has changed but I doubt it.

 

[Sunny]

Everything has its worth including shape and bodytype, the question is how much and according to BMW's direct competitors that worth has already been decided with both the CLS and A7. BMW are maximising profits with this one like they did with the first gen 6er and as before it's the original buyer that will take all of the hit in the pocket which is the opposite with a 3 series coupe.

P.S. you never did answer my question of paying $98k (UK prices) for a 640GC.

What is you question? Will I pay $98k for 640GC? No, neither will I pay $70k for it, nor $50K. Neither will I pay $60k for A7 nor $70k for CLS... cause none of the cars offer what I am looking for. That doesn't mean I go around making ridiculous claims like you that people who do buy them are being idiotic or some cuckoo claim about corporations respecting or not respecting their customers.

 

[Guibo]

Really? Allow me to quote myself. All these posts were made in this very thread and the oldest one is only 48 hours old.
You have a very strange idea of "painting BMW as an unscrupulous company......."

And you've also said (looking at the entirety of the context of some quotes posted):
"(I accept the 6er probably costs slightly more to build due to there being SOME unqiue parts and it being built in smaller numbers), indicates there is a certain amount of 'creaming' going on of profits. I'm not blaming BMW for doing that, I hasten to add. But the presence of the 5er makes it a bit more blatant.
What I do find a bit cynical is that the 535d and 640d share exactly the same engine and power, so why do they apply the 40d moniker to the 6 Series and the 35d moniker to the 5 Series? Simply to make it look like you're getting more for the extra money you have to spend on the 640d."

Oh really? One "has" to spend even a single dollar/pound/euro on a 640d?
You can try to whitewash it all you want, but it's pretty clear you're singling out BMW for more blatant creaming of profits.* It doesn't appear that you are neutral on BMW's profit motive one bit.

*Porsche and Ferrari have higher profit margins than BMW. Are you saying they're blatantly creaming the customer with overpriced cars too? The wait lists for various Ferraris suggest otherwise. The next time you post, please explain to me the reasoning behind this logic:
"People willingly pay X dollars for Product Y. Therefore Product Y is overpriced."

 

[Guibo]

Everything has its worth including shape and bodytype, the question is how much and according to BMW's direct competitors that worth has already been decided with both the CLS and A7. BMW are maximising profits with this one like they did with the first gen 6er and as before it's the original buyer that will take all of the hit in the pocket which is the opposite with a 3 series coupe.
P.S. you never did answer my question of paying $98k (UK prices) for a 640GC.

It hasn't been answered because as you've already accepted, the CLS an A7 are built in higher volume. EnI has also said so previously in this very thread, estimating half of those volumes if lucky. Doesn't it make sense that if you have lower volumes by which to amortize your development costs (assuming similar levels of development), that each of those lower-volume units must cost more to reach a similar level of profitability on the model? You simply have provided no proof that BMW have aimed the 6er GC directly at the CLS/A7, no proof that they want the same sedan:"coupe" ratio, nor any equation by which the subtleties of style/image can be factored in to determine a lower "acceptable limit" of profiteering.
Why would it matter what a US customer thinks of paying for a price which doesn't even materialize in this market? I'm pretty sure that if the 5er came here with a 20% VAT, licence, and first registration, it wouldn't be as cheap either.

 

[Guibo]

Let's look at this in some detail...

That's EXACTLY what it is. "Image". You're paying your extra GBP 20,000 for the "image".

Now, I walk into a BMW showroom for a four-door, high performance diesel......

Me: I want to buy a twin-turbo diesel please.
BMW Salesman: OK, we have a 535d with 313hp for sale. That will be GBP 44,290 please.
Me: Hang on a second, what's that car over there? It has less interior space and is not as practical, but it looks better than the 535d. I'm willing to compromise on space a little if it looks that good. How much is it?
BMW Salesman: Oh, that's the 640d Gran Coupe, and that will be GBP 63,900 please.
Me: Er, OK. That's nearly GBP 20,000 more than the 535d and yet it offers no obvious advantages other than it looks sexier. In fact, it's a bit compromised on space compared to the 535d.
BMW Salesman: Yes Sir, but that is a 640d. See? 640d.
Me: Oh right, so it has a different engine to the 535d?
BMW Salesman: Er....no.
Me: OK, but it must have more power then?
BMW Salesman: Er....no.

...
Me: So the 535d has 18" star-spoke wheels like the 640d?
BMW Salesman: Er...no. 17" is standard. 18" star-spokes on the 535d will run you GBP 1440 [running total: 45,730]
Me: The 535d comes as standard with DVD multimedia, navigation, BMW Assist and a 10.2" display?
BMW Salesman: Er...no. Standad would be CD, no nav, no BMW Assist and a 7" display. That other one on the 640d will cost you 2,090 [total: 47,820]
Me: Same BMW Business speaker system?
BMW Salesman: 415 [48,235]
Me: Folding auto-dimming mirrors?
BMW Salesman: 250 [48,485]
Me: Xenons and headlight washers?
BMW Salesman: 920 + 215 [49,620]
Me: Voice control?
BMW Salesman: 235 [49,885]
Me: Brushed aluminum trim?
BMW Saleman: 240 [50,095]
Me: Split-folding rear seat?
BMW Salesman: 390 + 45 for the requisite 12V socket [50,530]
Me: Sport multi-function leather steering wheel with gear shift paddles?
BMW Salesman: 110 [50,640]
Me: So you're telling me that the price difference between comparably equipped 640d and 535d models is actually closer to 13k than 20k, with the 6er GC costing about 26% more than the 5er. And that the "20k more for the image" is not quite accurate, but that part of the 20k difference is actually due to a higher standard feature content, is that correct?
BMW Salesman: Yes.
Me: And that difference is roughly comparable to what Mercedes charges for a CLS 350CDI Sport w/7G-tronic (£53,500 OTR) vs an E350 CDI Sport w/7G-tronic (£39,250 OTR), with the coupe costing £14,250 (36%) more, correct?
BMW Salesman: Seems like it.

 

[Guibo]

Review of 640d M Sport from Car Magazine, 25 May 2012

This is the new 2012 BMW 6-series Gran Coupe – and it’s been a long time coming. Such is the pace of the modern automotive industry that as soon as one (usually premium German) manufacturer finds a new niche, its rivals rush in too. But Mercedes genuinely stole a march on the competition when it launched its CLS ‘four-door coupe’ in 2005: the E-class underpinnings were disguised by swoopy shapes both inside and out, and only recently has the opposition started to catch up.
It’s taken BMW longer than most. Model cycles and product plans caught BMW out so only now, with the advent of the latest 6-series, has Munich been able to create a rival for the CLS. Not that Munich believes the 6-series Gran Coupe is a CLS rival. Instead it claims Porsche's Panamera is its real opposition – and the price list concurs as the 640d is £14k dearer than the equivalent CLS.

So just what is the BMW 6-series Gran Coupe?
The basic chassis architecture (double wishbone front suspension, multi-link rear) is shared with the 6-series Coupe and Convertible, as well as the 5-series, 5-series Gran Turismo and 7-series. But versus the Six Coupe and Convertible there’s now an extra 113mm of length between the axles (all for back-seat passengers) and the roofline is 23mm higher too.
It’s an elegant but aggressive shape, the angular ‘shark nose’ identical to its two-door siblings', the sides similarly scalloped, before the raised roof leads back and drops down to the upright rear. The M Sport kit (expected to be an option chosen by over 80% of Gran Coupe customers) adds more angular front and rear bumpers, 19in alloys, black brake calipers, darkened exhaust tailpipe tips, dark chrome exterior trim, sportier seats, and an M Sport steering wheel.
And inside the 6-series Gran Coupe?

Those M Sport bits apart it’s standard 6-series, with the dash angled slightly towards the driver and a huge leather-wrapped curvature separating the front passenger from all the controls like they’re some second-class citizen. The massive 10.2in sat-nav screen is standard, as is the leather dash in this M Sport-spec car, but the details necessary to really differentiate the Gran Coupe from the 5-series and 7-series (ceramic finish for the controls and contrast stitching for the dash) are optional extras – £385 and £195 respectively.
To keep up the coupe pretences (or to save on costs) the front seats are shared with the other Sixes, which means integrated seatbelts rather than ones attached to the B-pillar, so if you’re tall they’re constantly tugging down on your right shoulder. As for the back, the extra legroom, higher roof and new seat design means this is the first 6-series that can actually carry four real people in comfort.
What is the 6-series Gran Coupe like to drive?

There’s a choice of three engines, two of which are petrols and will barely be bought by anybody. But if you can’t stand the thought of a diesel Gran Coupe then the 640i (316bhp 3.0-litre straight-six) or 650i (444bhp 4.4-litre V8) might appeal.
But it’s the 640d that will account for around 80% of sales here. The twin-turbo 3.0-litre makes 309bhp, but more importantly there’s a hugely chunky 465lb ft available from 1500rpm to 2500rpm. Which means the 640d is as quick as the 640i to 62mph, and thumps past almost anything between 20mph and 100mph thanks to all that torque. Plus it makes a lovely un-diesel roar too.
Is it vaguely economical?

Beside Eco Pro, the Drive Performance Control selector on the transmission tunnel also has Comfort and Sport modes: pick between a softer, more comfortable ride, lighter steering and relaxed gearshift points, or firmer damping, a heavier helm and more aggressive gearbox tuning.
Our test car had optional 20in alloy wheels shod with run-flat tyres so it really thumped into potholes and smacked over expansion joints and means the ride is never perfectly smooth in Comfort mode. It’s the setting you’d pick though, more calm and comfortable than Sport, which is only necessary if you’re tanking along – which despite the Gran Coupe being more focussed and sportingly accomplished than the 5-series – never feels what it’s been built for.
Best to stick it in Comfort, waft along, surge along on the torque when the overtaking occasion arises, and cover great distances in fine comfort.
Verdict

More special and sporting than a 5-series, more comfortable and practical than a 6-series Coupe or Convertible, the Gran Coupe is expensive, not perfect, but definitely an appealing means of fast and comfortable transport.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/Search-Results/First-drives/BMW-640d-M-Sport-Gran-Coupe-2012-CAR-review/

 

[Betty Swollocks]

Oh for God's sake Guibo, will you give it a rest! I haven't read one word of your posts because you are just going on and on and on........

I've given you an explanation of my thoughts. When you claim I'm criticising BMW I show you six separate examples of me saying I'm not criticising BMW, but you still won't accept it. There's really nothing more I can say on the matter. Now just stop being so bloody sensitive and just drop it before the mods lock the thread.

 

[mini_cooper4]

A black M-Pack GC seems like the best choice!
Not to mention that the car has the nicest interior in the world(ok maybe that goes to the LF-A)

 

[klier]

A black M-Pack GC seems like the best choice!
Not to mention that the car has the nicest interior in the world(ok maybe that goes to the LF-A)

Nah, it's nice alright, but I can think of much better. The 612 Berlinetta comes to mind
In this class though, it's quite nice indeed.

 

[mini_cooper4]

Nah, it's nice alright, but I can think of much better. The 612 Berlinetta comes to mind
In this class though, it's quite nice indeed.

The GC gave me the coast cruiser feel I so much adore in luxurius vehicles
There are more exotic interiors but the better executed ones ain't much