5 Series BMW 5 Series GT (aka PAS) - spy pics & info

[coolraoul]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

F for functionality, F for feminine, F for family.

And that 'F for feminine' is crazy. This car will be anything but feminine.

F for Fugly?

Seriously... I like the X6 (looks 100 times better than the X5), but the F5 is just completely pointless.
C'mon. It's a slightly larger and higher 5 Touring, but with a falling hatch... What is its appeal next to the 5 Touring? slightly more spacious? wow, big deal...

Does it at least come with 7 seats, 7 real seats? If not it's just overkill.

And please, EnI, stop calling them SAC, PAC, PUC, SAV, SUCk and other meaningless names! I don't remember which is what...only the BMW marketing people do!

 

[EnI]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

F for Fugly?

Seriously... I like the X6 (looks 100 times better than the X5), but the F5 is just completely pointless.
C'mon. It's a slightly larger and higher 5 Touring, but with a falling hatch... What is its appeal next to the 5 Touring? slightly more spacious? wow, big deal...

Does it at least come with 7 seats, 7 real seats? If not it's just overkill.

And please, EnI, stop calling them SAC, PAC, PUC, SAV, SUCk and other meaningless names! I don't remember which is what...only the BMW marketing people do!

I use abbreviations for easier identification - since we don't know the final & official name the car will posses.


Regarding PAS:

market analysts detected needs customers wanted more spacious luxury vehicles. While MB went for stylish mini-van (R-class), BMW are going for huge hatchback. Audi - on the other hand - is coming out with larger core models. Different solutions to satisfy the same needs.

Again: how will this car be positioned?
Eg. its position against against existing large BMW models like 5er sedan, 5er touring, 7er sedan, X5 SAV, X3 SAV, X6 SAC.
Its position against its main rivals - if there are any in the premium segment (not even the R-class).
From what existing customer base will it steal customers?

Yes ... There is an interest in such a car (market researches showed that). Spacious as an SAV, but not as high - with lower driving position. And with non-SUV design: lower, more coupeish, more car-ish & less truck-ish. A Crossover. Think Dodge Caliber. Or Nissan Quashqai. A premium variant of a such a vehicle.
But how big a population with such particular interest really is? Is BMW expecting some major migrations from other segments (eg. SAVs or wagons)? I guess they are since I don't believe this specific group of people who is interested in such a vehicle is car-less right now. And I believe there is quite big customer base for such vehicles - especially in Europe. That's confirmed by many carmaker entering the crossover segment. Eg. Nissan Quashqai is a huge success in Europe, I read recently in the press, and Infiniti is entering the segment with much anticipated EX - yet smaller & less expensive than F5.


What I'm sure is that this car - the F5 - is not for those who want a spacious car in general (since there are many mch more practical alternative available), but for ones who want a spacious BMW. But ... There are at least two such cars already out there: X5 & 7er. So, why choosing F5 over X5, 7er or even X6, 5er sedan / touring or X3.


1.) 5er sedan touring may not be spacious enough. While touring is only a 5er sedan with a backpack: more cargo space but same passenger space.

2.) 7er may be in a different league anyway - much more expensive & yet less versatile than F5. More like status car.

3.) X5 may be too big for some - too high & not agile enough.

4.) X6 is a bit better in this respect yet it doesn't offer enough cargo & passenger space.

5.) X3 may still be too SAV-ish for some, with too high sitting position. Too utilitarian - not exclusive & luxury enough.

 

[bmwownage]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

What really is the point of this car? It's pretty much the same size (and weight?) as a 5series but it only seats 4, however it looks more of a wagon than a coupe, so who would want one? I originally thought this family of cars will be those functional high ergonomics roomy vehicles.. Or is this the light weight shooting brake? I don't really believe this will be more roomy than the 5series right? It only seats 4..

 

[EnI]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

I don't really believe this will be more roomy than the 5series right? It only seats 4..

?????


The cabin will be bigger than than the one of F10 sedan & F11 touring due slightly longer wheelbase. Also the track & cabin will be wider. Not to mention higher roof line.

So, the cabin will have bigger volume than the one in regular 5er models. And in 4-seat variant (there will be a provisional 5th seat available as well) there will be more space for passengers, not space for more passengers. Quality over quantity.

Get it?
Bigger cabin + less seats = more space per passenger.
That's the catch & point of the PAS. Plus greater versatility than in the 5er case.

And mind this car will mainly aim at Euro markets, but I guess US customers will like it. Definitely more than not-so-popular 5er touring. To US customers PAS will make more sense than 5er touring.

But in both case - Euro & US - the PAS will be the "anti-SUV" vehicle. A spacious non-SAV BMW. Cheaper & more versatile than 7er. Something BMW lacks in their model line.

But be sure PAS will be a typical BMW.

Yet the press will label the car as "pointless". Which - again - shows the car "journalists" have no clue about current trends & (luxury) buyers needs / wishes. Of course, since the journalists usually are middle class car enthusiasts who prefer economy-box cars, sporty-performance coupes & supercars, and classic luxury sedans they dream of.

 

[coolraoul]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Okay, so, EnI, to sum it up... it's a 5er Touring with slightly more rear legroom, right? And not even more boot as the rear is somehow coupeish...

You see, I understand the R-Class (very spacious, much more than even the GL). I understand the X6 (very stylish, much more than the X5). i understand the CLS (E-Class coupe). I understand some crossovers.

But the F5... No, really i don't. I'm sure there were a lot of marketing studies. Just like for the R-Class.

I still fail to see a real reason to take it over a 5er Touring. Given the spypics we have of the 5er, we see it will be rather sporty. The 5er Touring will thus be rather sporty, I guess: surely it will have a very inclined C-pillar, so not very practical if you need a lot of boot. And not everybody is fond of SUVs (or whatever BMW call them).

So i would've understood a kind of R-Class (of course with a BMW design): very very spacious, big boot, 7 seats. It would be the 7-seat 5er Touring, somehow, for those who don't want a sporty Touring but a practical one.
One sporty Touring, one practical Touring, you see?

But here, it will have a not-so practical shape, so not a lot of boot, and no 7 seats... pointless.

You have the Golf+... This will be the 5er Touring+...right? Only that it won't be significantly more practical...so pointless.

Just one question: why not offering an option for the Touring, with only 4 seats and put a bit further in the rear to enhance legroom?

 

[Centurion]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Like I have said all along it's an MVP but with BMW DNA andsexier shape than the traditional MVP. Just look at the green house, very generous interior space just like the R-class. Clearly a car for families not content with the comfort and space of the 5er touring.

 

[EnI]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Okay, so, EnI, to sum it up... it's a 5er Touring with slightly more rear legroom, right? And not even more boot as the rear is somehow coupeish...

Just one question: why not offering an option for the Touring, with only 4 seats and put a bit further in the rear to enhance legroom?

LWB 5er Touring?

I don't know ... still lacks head space.

PAS vs. 5er Touring: PAS will have more legroom, more elbow space, more head space, more base boot space (when cargo cover closed). So, more base space in every dimension. Plus slightly higher sitting position ...

Like said before: touring is just a sedan with a "backpack". Same passenger space, larger extended boot space + 5th door (tail gate).

I'm sorry you don't understand the car, but many want it ... something between 5er Touring & X5. Bigger than touring, offering more space PER PASSANGER. Slightly higher sitting position - but not as high as X5. Not having truck-ish appearence as X5 does. Offering better driving dynamics than X5 - almost as good as 5er. Having better ride comfort than 5er - more on level with 7er.

Space per passanger: more than 5er (incl. touring) & X5, more like 7er but more versatile
Cargo space: base space larger than in 5er, more like 7er but more versatile (tail gate)
Sitting position: lower than X5 / X6, higher than 5er / 7er
Driving dynamics: better than X5 / X6, almost as good as 5er, on par with 7er
Ride comfort: as good as 7er, better than 5er, X5, X6
Styling: more sedan-like than SAV-ish, dynamic, more in line with 5er & 7er than X-family, featuring special & typical PAS-family styling; featuring typical BMW proportions
Exterior dimensions / appearence: hatchback silhouette, lower & smaller appearence than X-family, more sadan-ish than truck-ish / van-ish, larger than 5er - more in line with 7er but higher & feat. hatch rear.


PS:

PAS vs. R-class: PAS will be approx. as long & as wide but lower (sitting lower + slightly lower roof line) for about 8 - 10cm. Also due not featuring 3rd row of seats the roof line is much more hatchback-ish / coupeish and not as van-ish as on R-class. But a least as much versatile, comfortable, exclusive, luxurious & spacious (per passenger). Yet with better - typical BMW - driving dynamics. And greener.

 

[S'Pimp]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info


so many questions, only a few replies

forget PAS - in the end its only a derivative of 5er -
based on new F10
so PAS is F05
If there is a car from a premium-car-manufacturer , which is similar in shape, then its the R-class
but PAS is in the rear a lot more coupeish

 

[SCOTT27]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

You will see the first interpretations of the PAS as a Concept Car in 2009, But this is the most exciting BMW in development at the moment in how it's appearance will effectively "defy convention" and effectively begin a new context for what this car should be.

Think of it as a variation of Extreme sport - It might sound impossible but effectively releases a new form of adrenalin.
As to call it well F was refused but we are working with Volvo on a compromise in which the compromise could be something to work both in BMW's and Volvo's favour

This car has the potential of being something very,very big. Look at the original leaked images of course progress has occurred and the roof line has become sleeker and less upright and there are more changes to the key details but overall that is what it will look like. Even down to the split rear roof , It is a very exciting car in which it move forward to FEP stage towards the end of 2008.

 

[Ralfd]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Just read in german magazine 'Spiegel' that Ford is (again) considering selling Volvo to Russian or Chinese investors....Maybe BMW can buy the 'F' from Volvo in this mess......or this period of uncertainty will make a deal more difficult to reach....
A while ago there was even a rumor that BMW might buy Volvo....(which I hope is not true)

 

[EMpower]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

LWB 5er Touring?

I don't know ... still lacks head space.

PAS vs. 5er Touring: PAS will have more legroom, more elbow space, more head space, more base boot space (when cargo cover closed). So, more base space in every dimension. Plus slightly higher sitting position ...

Like said before: touring is just a sedan with a "backpack". Same passenger space, larger extended boot space + 5th door (tail gate).

I'm sorry you don't understand the car, but many want it ... something between 5er Touring & X5. Bigger than touring, offering more space PER PASSANGER. Slightly higher sitting position - but not as high as X5. Not having truck-ish appearence as X5 does. Offering better driving dynamics than X5 - almost as good as 5er. Having better ride comfort than 5er - more on level with 7er.

Space per passanger: more than 5er (incl. touring) & X5, more like 7er but more versatile
Cargo space: base space larger than in 5er, more like 7er but more versatile (tail gate)
Sitting position: lower than X5 / X6, higher than 5er / 7er
Driving dynamics: better than X5 / X6, almost as good as 5er, on par with 7er
Ride comfort: as good as 7er, better than 5er, X5, X6
Styling: more sedan-like than SAV-ish, dynamic, more in line with 5er & 7er than X-family, featuring special & typical PAS-family styling; featuring typical BMW proportions
Exterior dimensions / appearence: hatchback silhouette, lower & smaller appearence than X-family, more sadan-ish than truck-ish / van-ish, larger than 5er - more in line with 7er but higher & feat. hatch rear.


PS:

PAS vs. R-class: PAS will be approx. as long & as wide but lower (sitting lower + slightly lower roof line) for about 8 - 10cm. Also due not featuring 3rd row of seats the roof line is much more hatchback-ish / coupeish and not as van-ish as on R-class. But a least as much versatile, comfortable, exclusive, luxurious & spacious (per passenger). Yet with better - typical BMW - driving dynamics. And greener.

PAS will be a big success in US as people in US are not happy about the fact that X6 sits only 4 and that will effect the X6 sales.
PAS's space combined with ED will be big plus on BMW's side. People love spacious vehicles in US.

R-class has failed in US and you can see them as limos around NYC. In Americans opinion it looks like a hearse.

As to call it well F was refused but we are working with Volvo on a compromise in which the compromise could be something to work both in BMW's and Volvo's favour

Volvo is being sold to Chinese?
Report: Ford in talks to sell Volvo

 

[Merc1]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

PAS will be a big success in US as people in US are not happy about the fact that X6 sits only 4 and that will effect the X6 sales.
PAS's space combined with ED will be big plus on BMW's side. People love spacious vehicles in US.

I'd bet that it won't be. If they want an X6 that seats more than 4 they'll buy an X5. There is no need (outside of some made up marketing nonsense) for this PAS vehicle. Now the marketing folk will tell you all day long that it is so different from the R-Class, yet in reality it aims for the same purpose, has the same mission. I predict that this BMW will be a tough sell, especially if it is as expensive as the X6.

M

 

[Sunny]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

I think PAS's success or failure will depend on it's execution and not it's practicality or purpose. If it is hot and appeals to people's vanity, it will sell, if it ends up looking like a mini van like the R class - it will fail. Looking at the prototype, the odds don't look good, but then I thought the same about X6.

 

[Centurion]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

I'd bet that it won't be. If they want an X6 that seats more than 4 they'll buy an X5. There is no need (outside of some made up marketing nonsense) for this PAS vehicle. Now the marketing folk will tell you all day long that it is so different from the R-Class, yet in reality it aims for the same purpose, has the same mission. I predict that this BMW will be a tough sell, especially if it is as expensive as the X6.

M

I see the car an enlarged X6 minus the AWD with a more hatchback-ish rear end. It will definitely sell since there aren't many large cars in the premium segment unless you want a heavy SUV. BMW are doing the right thing not marketing it as an MPV because we'll all seen that MVPs are pretty much dead these day. So by making one with a slanted roof and attractive design BMW are taking a different approach that no one else has thought of. If it looks cool and doesn't cost more than 5-7k than 5er than I could be a selling very well. If executed right, looks alone could sell the car. There's definitely a market for a car like this since there's obviously too much focus on SUVs these days. But like Sunny said the success with merely depend on if BMW has gone all the way with design or simply make an ugly car like the X3 not wanting it to outshine the X6.

 

[EnI]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

PAS is an anti-SAV.

It will be priced in X5 range (in Europe!).
So, on par with R-class.

What MB did wrong with R-class was the decision to make it so van-ish (the rear).

Bad idea!

 

[bmwownage]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

If it's bigger than the F10 5series then OK, it'll be a bit like the Rclass, like getting the space out of a 7series while having cheaper lower market interiors and features? I see this more of a mini X6 for now, for those who like the coupe SAV shape of the X6 but who cannot afford to buy or to run such a big car.. Don't know, very confused about this for now.. BMW is going to make something like this based on the next 3series too right? now how would that be explained? A bit bigger than the 3series touring but smaller than the X3 smaller than the 5series... i mean, that would make it maybe 2centimetres bigger than a 3series and 3centimetres smaller than a 5series, it's sooo narrow. It's certainly good to have more models, but I hope they can make good profits out of it.

 

[Centurion]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

I see this more of a mini X6 for now,

Not really. Interior space will be much more generous than the X6 especially in the back row. See it as a family who want a spacious car, the same people who would by an R-Class or similar semi-premium MPV. It won't carry the same lifestyle image as X6, Caeynne or RR Sport. It will be particulary of interest for people who don't want to waste money buying an SUV featuring unwanted properties like off road capability and dead weight.

 

[Ralfd]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

While waiting for the first official F01 pics , I found this new interpretation of the PAS :
Looks very nice 2 me ...



Here is the link to the original site:
BMW Progressive Activity Sedan coming to Frankfurt in 2009

 

[klier]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Thanks Ralf! I think this is a pretty good CGI to give an idea on what the car is about.

 

[martinbo]

Re: BMW F5 Progressive Activity Sedan - spy pics & info

Oh, I'm so not looking forward to this hatchback crossed with a breadvan from BMW. The X6 is enough already. We don't need yet another crossover.

[/rant]