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Yea it's a real shame. Lago and Mckenzie were/are the only great MT journalists.
Comparison tests BMW 335i Vs Jaguar XE S
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I'm not debating that the Jag is a great car but I know some of these guys personally and it's shocking how little knowledge or engineering education some of these journalists have (Lieberman). It frightens me because 90 percent of the public believe every word they write. They base their purchasing decisions on these reviews when the writers don't even know what a twin scroll turbo is (Lieberman).
mini_cooper4
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Yes, it seems the XE is the current Sports Sedan king soon to be dethroned by the Giulia I guess.
Both followed by the ATS and IS350 which are IMO a close call from what I hear.
Haven't driven any of these cars so I simply base that on reviews and what I can gather from footage. While the 3er is an amazing all-round package(not many cars even come close) and it might be more reliable and better built(far from being a king of reliability tho) it's now down from 1st to 5th when it comes to sports sedans. It sits somewhat in between the entry-level luxury and sports sedan classified cars. Jack of all trades and master of none = great all-round car.
Competition is the best thing ever! We are getting some amazing cars in the segment that matters most to me!
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This thread has got to be Kiwirob's finest hour!
...soon to be crashed by the facelifted 3er
Still, great to see some new competition again. Jaguar and Alfa can join the gang, I am more than happy with this.
3er RWD
C class RWD
Giulia RWD
XE RWD
YAY. More competition mean better cars. And something from England with something from Italy will break up the German language a bit.
...soon to be crashed by the facelifted 3er
Still, great to see some new competition again. Jaguar and Alfa can join the gang, I am more than happy with this.
3er RWD
C class RWD
Giulia RWD
XE RWD
YAY. More competition mean better cars. And something from England with something from Italy will break up the German language a bit.
KiwiRob
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Why do they need engineering knowledge to review a car, knowing how to drive a car and how to build a car are different things. Get in it, drive the wheels off it, make your decision based on how much you like or don't like it, enough said, it's a pretty easy job really. If people decide to base their purchasing decision of what you say then job done. I wouldn't I want to drive it myself before I take anyone elses word as given.
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I don't want to get carried away here but that is partially flawed logic. Based on that, you could let a 16 year old girl decide the "Car and Driver's ten best list".
Let me ask you this: Would you want Britney Spears to be the anchor on "Meet the Press"? Or "Taking Stock"?
I'm sure you wouldn't because she has zero analytical skill, is no subject matter expert, and would give you a poor review of the news and stocks. If you are associated with a credible source, such as a national car magazine (or any other large news source), you must have credibility. That means knowing the subject better than almost everyone. These magazine employed writers and hosts have the responsibility to a commitment to truth, fairness, knowledge, and objectivity. They must be absolute experts in their field. It is concerning to me that a supposedly expert automotive journalist doesn't know the meaning of a basic automotive term such as twin scroll Turbo.
Now if we have some Joe Shmoe doing a YouTube review on his private channel, that's another thing. That's just an opinion.
Sayyaaf
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I pity the fools who buy a car based on a car review. Make your own opinion people (which I think majority of the car buyers do these days). Believe it or not but not everybody is net surfing. An opinion is like an asshole, everyone has one.
I found them very useful as "baseline" and what to expect out of a car ownership experience. Depends on the reviewer for example many find harris formative but i can't drift cars like he does
he doesn't do much for me. While others tried to objectify what's arguably a subjective thing. Take Motortrend for example when they measure figure 8, slip angle and tendency to under/oversteer. that is very helpful specially for me as porsche fan. I avoided PDCC for example since it seemed artificial at their measured review.
Sayyaaf
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I kind of agree and disagree at the same time. Knowing the technology or philosophy behind a car is definitely necessary for a car enthusiast but here journalists are dealing with broad audience. Some care and some don't.
I still think a reviewer should expose all areas of car experience for the targeted customer. As objectively as it gets.
Bucketslash11
Das Beste Enthusiast
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going back to liebermann, on his backsory in the staff section he states nothing of going to trackdays while carlos stated he had trackday experience before MT, due to this he can't handle a car which bites back at him when he does a mistake
and as explained above liebermann isn't the most neutral of the host often letting his bias dictate the ups and downs as a car nor does he do a lot of research
Bucketslash11
Das Beste Enthusiast
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i've just relized that everytime there's a liebermann review/H2H the thread turns into a MT rant
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I don't dislike Lieberman as you do guys, but it seems that on paper he might be right. A McPherson front suspension will never be as good as a double wishbone and it's about time BMW ups their game. A supercharged V6 might be more alive than a turbocharged one and he did mention fuel consumption, which Jaguar has a lot. Design (interior and exterior) is certainly subjective, but noone can say that the XE is ugly.
Actually, most of us, don't have trackdays experience either. Most normal people don't like cars that bite back.
Actually, most of us, don't have trackdays experience either. Most normal people don't like cars that bite back.
KiwiRob
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I pity the fools who buy a car based on a car review. Make your own opinion people (which I think majority of the car buyers do these days). Believe it or not but not everybody is net surfing. An opinion is like an asshole, everyone has one.
There are people who buy cars based purely on the badge on the bonnet (klier), do you pity them as well?
Zafiro
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I pity people around the world, except for myself.
Sayyaaf
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let someone else take the hit.Liebermann is known to fabricate stuff along the way. Although, I must admit more recently he has toned it down quite a bit and has been trying to bring a bit more balance in his point of view probably after too many complaints, but he used to be quite reckless in his comments once he developed a bias against a certain car.
He used to seem like trying too hard to generate controversy, which I think was so that his videos can get the most views.
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I actually don't have any trouble believing that -
These cars are just sporty sedans. They are not at any cutting edge of performance where technical or engineering ability of the company is the limiting factor of how sporty a car is. But rather what the design brief is. BMW sells a lot of the 3ers now, it has to appeal to a wide audience. Same for other established companies - Merc, Audi and even Lexus. Their target audience and market research sets what the design brief is, not magazine reviews. The minnows (Jag, Cadillac) OTOH have to get the good reviews to grow their market and they know making something sporty is sure way to get good reviews so they probably have a design brief which specifically says make something sportier then the 3er.
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