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[Swissbob]

FWIW, when I said they are stupid, I include myself. Cause I still like and shop for ICE cars, cause I consider myself petrolhead/enthusiast, but that is still an euphemism for being stupid. And I truly believe that given all the caveats I put in the sentence, if someone still chooses an ICEV, it is a stupid decision. One that I have made and will probably make in the future.

From the efficiency perspective you’re right.

From the emotional perspective, it’s IMHO not stupid.

I do the same BTW. (Still like and shop ICE).

You can See additional details in the post 1818 above.

 

[montana]

I've come to the conclusion most EV advocates on the site have no comprehension of what it's like to not have a parking space directly attached to their own property, let alone having to negotiate with freeholders and other leaseholders to do pretty much anything.

I know quite a few people who live in SF in apartments and park on the street with EVs. I myself went without a home charger for almost a year after I got my EV. For average usage, it is a 20 - 40 min of stop over at a fast charger once a week. It is not that hard.

Just my two cents - I live in a house in Oslo and charge my Polestar 3 at home regularly - that is until the dreaded OBC broke and I had to rely on DC charging only. It's been a complete nightmare - because of the cold basically. I had to regularly drive to the nearest fast charger during weekdays and charge, where I'd be lucky to get 40-60 kW (on a 300 kW pole). Most I've gotten is 90-100 kW.

Anecdotal, I know, but this is the first time I've felt what it's like living with an EV without home charging. It's essential unless you have directly access to chargers on the street outside your door. And then, if the spots are taken.....

 

[Sunny]

Unless, of course, it is a classic vehicle

That is of course a given. I was talking daily use car here. If I got a daily today, it will probably be a manual of some sort. Not the smartest choice.

Just my two cents - I live in a house in Oslo and charge my Polestar 3 at home regularly - that is until the dreaded OBC broke and I had to rely on DC charging only. It's been a complete nightmare - because of the cold basically. I had to regularly drive to the nearest fast charger during weekdays and charge, where I'd be lucky to get 40-60 kW (on a 300 kW pole). Most I've gotten is 90-100 kW.

Good point. Battery conditioning before charging doesn't help?

 

[montana]

That is of course a given. I was talking daily use car here. If I got a daily today, it will probably be a manual of some sort. Not the smartest choice.


Good point. Battery conditioning before charging doesn't help?

Good question.

It does, but the thing is that in order for me to pre-condition I have to navigate to a charger on Google Maps and then drive for 45 minutes at the very least - keep in mind we are experiencing -14/15 degrees celsius at this point. Doing this will get me maybe 30-35 kw more at the charger (?). Better I just sit those 45 min extra at the charger and watch a movie on the screen.

When I get home from work my wife and I pick up the children at daycare and school (luckily the buildings are right next to each other), and then make dinner - and then we have some time together as a family. I would say roughly four times a week I had to skip spending time with my family to go charging. Imagine if in addition to that I'd have to drive 45 min before that just to get those extra 35 kW.

Again, anecdotal, but a real life scenario. It doesn't put me off EVs at all, that was not my point, but I certainly get why it's not for everyone. I could never do this for en extended period of time.

Other than those troubles EVs have been perfect for us. The Audi e Tron was near trouble-free during the 75K kilometres I had it, and the Polestar 3 is an amazing vehicle for sure.

 

[klier]

That is of course a given. I was talking daily use car here. If I got a daily today, it will probably be a manual of some sort. Not the smartest choice.

My manual NA 130i was very smart.

So smart I haven't been able to drive it because of the snow and ice LOL

 

[Big Sam]

I've come to the conclusion most EV advocates on the site have no comprehension of what it's like to not have a parking space directly attached to their own property, let alone having to negotiate with freeholders and other leaseholders to do pretty much anything.

I own two EVs, and will own a 3rd within a few months, and last year I used my home charger about four times. I charge at work because it's cheaper. That doesn't mean everybody can charge at work, but it's another example of how an EV *could* fit into someone's life if they didn't have room for a home charger.

If I couldn't charge at work or home, it's still possible to own an EV, but it is a bit more inconvenient. Too inconvenient? No, I don't think so. You just adapt. You charge for 15-mins when shopping. You go to a fast charger and plug in for 20-minutes but reply to a few emails while waiting. When you do that, you actually start to feel it's more convenient then ICE, because you achieve other tasks while charging. The biggest challenge for someone switching from ICE to EV is you need a completely different mentality when it comes to "refueling". I still see even EV owners going to a charger, plugging in and sitting there doing nothing for one hour waiting to charge to 100%, even though they don't actually need to be at 100%. It's utterly bonkers.

I agree, but because of the mess with 10 different cards and 20 different prices ( depending on which subscription you booked ) some people are overwhelmed.

There's just no need for anybody to be overwhelmed by anything. People are just beyond help when it comes to learning how to have an EV in their lives. Why would you have ten different cards? Why would there be twenty different prices? I have a Porsche, so I use Porsche Charging Service, and you need one card (I actually have a Porsche keyfob with an RFID inside it which is linked to my card). It could not be easier. And you pay one price for Ionity or Porsche chargers, and evething else is another, single price. It's easier than petrol or diesel because you don't have to go looking for the cheapest fuel. And before anybody starts with "ah but not everybody can afford a Porsche", it's the same with every manufacturer. BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Ford. And you could also get a subscription with Tesla, for example, and you wouldn't need any other.

It's genuinely tiresome reading the same nonsense, day-in, day-out about EVs and charging coming up with issues that are just non-existent.

The Price without subscription is 61 pence/kWh.

Why would somebody not have a subscription? If you charge away from home a lot then you would have one. If you don't charge away from home enough to justify a subscription, then it's so incidental that the price is of little consequence.

 

[Sunny]

It does, but the thing is that in order for me to pre-condition I have to navigate to a charger on Google Maps and then drive for 45 minutes at the very least - keep in mind we are experiencing -14/15 degrees celsius at this point. Doing this will get me maybe 30-35 kw more at the charger (?). Better I just sit those 45 min extra at the charger and watch a movie on the screen.

That sucks. In our Hyundai, yes if we navigate to a charger, it will auto start preconditioning. But you can also explicitly start the preconditioning from the car's app, so I usually do that 30mins before I plan to go.

 

[KiwiRob]

They have no possibility to install a wallbox at home because they live in apartments, and the electricity in the garage is not strong enough to support the installation of wallboxes.

That can all be easily resolved. Norway has retrofitted thousands of apartment buildings to allow the instillation of EV chargers, new buildings are built with them already installed.

 

[KiwiRob]

There's just no need for anybody to be overwhelmed by anything. People are just beyond help when it comes to learning how to have an EV in their lives. Why would you have ten different cards? Why would there be twenty different prices? I have a Porsche, so I use Porsche Charging Service, and you need one card (I actually have a Porsche keyfob with an RFID inside it which is linked to my card). It could not be easier. And you pay one price for Ionity or Porsche chargers, and evething else is another, single price. It's easier than petrol or diesel because you don't have to go looking for the cheapest fuel. And before anybody starts with "ah but not everybody can afford a Porsche", it's the same with every manufacturer. BMW, Mercedes, Renault, Ford. And you could also get a subscription with Tesla, for example, and you wouldn't need any other.

I have the same system with BMW and MINI, with Inoity it's even easier with the BMW it's just plug and charge. I use my BMW and MINI cards for most chargers, except tesla where I have the ap, Tesla superchargers are consistently the cheapest in Norway.

 

[KiwiRob]

However one thing, is a little bit different in my bubble.
What annoys me, is that a few People I know start to feel superior after getting an EV, in the next step they become vegan, and every time they meet a friend or family who drives a ICE car and who eats meat and cheese, they start to argue with him.

It sometimes becomes a crazy cult.

I don't know anyoe who has become vegan after buying an EV, I don't willingly know any vegan, like religious people they are generally obnoxious people and not worth the effort.

 

[Design FIRST]

That can all be easily resolved. Norway has retrofitted thousands of apartment buildings to allow the instillation of EV chargers, new buildings are built with them already installed.

Here in Germany, a number of incentives have been introduced as of the beginning of this year. Leaving Germany moving in Norways's direction. At least in theory, commendable. We have yet to see how the actual execution will evolve. My electricity provider will charge approx. 21 Eurocents per KWh should "Intelligent Charging via App" (between 23:00-05:00 hours) be booked.

 

[Design FIRST]

I don't know anyoe who has become vegan after buying an EV, I don't willingly know any vegan, like religious people they are generally obnoxious people and not worth the effort.

Vegans are also most often not very "nutrition savvy" as well. Without supplements, a vegan diet is unhealthy.

 

[Matski]

Vegans are also most often not very "nutrition savvy" as well. Without supplements, a vegan diet is unhealthy.

As someone that is burying yet another friend this week, in my 47 years of life, I've yet to out live a vegan.

 

[Design FIRST]

As someone that is burying yet another friend this week, in my 47 years of life, I've yet to out live a vegan.

Regret that about the passing of your friend.

Getting back to nutrition, Polo-Pescetarian/Vegetable/Legume/Whole Grain/low fructose fruits diet is a highly commendable route to take. And ABSOLUTELY NO TRANSFATS or refinded sugars. Very little, if any, alcohol. Ginger, lemon juice are your "friends". As is a daily teaspoon of powerdered curcuma with a dash of black pepper mixed with linseed oil.

 

[Swissbob]

Vegans are also most often not very "nutrition savvy" as well. Without supplements, a vegan diet is unhealthy.

Exactly, they use supplements instead, and take approximately 10 different tablets instead, or they start to behave strange, because your brain needs vitamins and proteins.

They do it because of ethics, milking a cow is wrong, drinking her milk is wrong, same goes for the eggs of a chicken you’re not allowed to take it from her.

But If there’s a mosquito or a spider in the room they’re killing it anyway.

 

[Design FIRST]

Exactly, they use supplements instead, and take approximately 10 different tablets instead, or they start to behave strange, because your brain needs vitamins and proteins.

They do it because of ethics, milking a cow is wrong, drinking her milk is wrong, same goes for the eggs of a chicken you’re not allowed to take it from her.

But If there’s a mosquito or a spider in the room they’re killing it anyway.

I'm not aware of being personally acquainted with vegans, hence I am hardly qualified to comment on their alleged, perceived "character traits". But being keenly interested in wholesome, healthy nuturition (for a number of reasons), I always try to let myself be educated on the topic. It is IMHO a fascinating field, including aspects of the "mind/body connection", the effects that it can have on societies, economies and health services, etc. One of the luxuries of being a pensioner...an abundance to time to pursue interests and seek to educate myself further. After all, "Man lernt nie aus.". Hardly a day passes in which I must recognize just how little I really know. And that's actually a bit exciting.

 

[Design FIRST]

I just love how these cars look.

IMHO, currently the best looking large 4 door GT-like sedans.